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DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

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Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#61

Post by robin_reala »

Freak_NL wrote: post #48
solarkraft wrote: post #24

Why support proprietary Apple Maps instead of Open Street Map? Is the data a lot more precise? Is the viewer smoother? Is it just another step towards aligning with Apple for an eventual buyout/search engine standard? That said: If privacy is the only concern Apple seems to be a pretty good ally, as the only major player with a significant interest in it.

> Is the data a lot more precise? Perhaps in Apple's own backyard. In the Netherlands it's laughably bad. Cycle tracks? Mostly missing (in a country that has a huge cycling infrastructure). The map doesn't even have building outlines. Google Maps is slightly better, but mostly because of the more extensive mapping of points-of-interest; because business owners add their own information with an almost religious zeal.…

Data is just frequently different between different mapping services. I was in Seoul recently and Google maps refused to do walking directions. Apple maps did walking directions just fine, but refused to do public transport routing. In the end I just had to swap between them throughout the day.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#62

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

Erik816 wrote: post #41
scrooched_moose wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have the !g option in their search though. If you aren't happy with the results, append your string with !g and it will send you to google results. You do lose the privacy layer though. From a purely privacy standpoint this isn't much different. There are a ton of other bang options here: https://duckduckgo.com/bang ?

I was under the impression that a !g search was somehow anonymized. Was that just wishful thinking?

It surprises me how many people think this. I'm not sure where it comes from. All it does is redirect you to Google.

So `!g hello world` just redirects to `https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hello%20world`

I'm can't see how that could possibly be more anonymized then just going to google.com yourself.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#63

Post by Forbo »

papln wrote: post #45
bilbo0s wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which are explicitly required to be non-private. Users know this and are cautioned, explicitly against using it for that very reason. Now if you don't care that google knows your information, then yeah, just use google maps. But a user must be at DDG for some reason right? And that reason is as likely to be privacy as it is not. So if you're at DDG for privacy, why ask for all google information?

Where is the warning on https://duckduckgo.com/bang?c=Online+Services&sc=Google ?

"Remember, though, because your search is actually taking place on that other site, you are subject to that site’s policies, including its data collection practices."

A better alternative would be !s which redirects your search through Startpage.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#64

Post by jeromegv »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #53
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not saying it’s clearly better than Google If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. I, too, use Apple as my primary map. In many cases, Apple Maps is better Google. The ones in which it’s behind are more than made up for by Apple’s values.

If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. Is it? Has everyone forgotten the Yelp tracking beacon? Good thing Apple relies on Yelp for business info and has pretty deep Yelp integration with the mobile app.

Apple have shown times and times again that they wouldn't let 3rd party do shady things into their own Maps app, that's the whole reason they got rid of Google Maps. That's a baseless accusation.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#65

Post by caiob »

burlesona wrote: post #40

This is cool to see, and I think should be a virtuous cycle. As I understand it, maps is the kind of thing where more usage really helps make the map better, and while DDG doesn’t bring the scale of being the iphone’s default map, it should be adding a non-trivial amount of traffic. I’ve used Apple Maps as my primary map since it came out, and I’ve only gotten a wrong location one time in literally thousands of searc…

Apple Maps works better than Google Maps in Montreal.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#66

Post by samschooler »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #53
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not saying it’s clearly better than Google If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. I, too, use Apple as my primary map. In many cases, Apple Maps is better Google. The ones in which it’s behind are more than made up for by Apple’s values.

If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. Is it? Has everyone forgotten the Yelp tracking beacon? Good thing Apple relies on Yelp for business info and has pretty deep Yelp integration with the mobile app.

In DuckDuckGo's implementation at least it looks like they proxy all requests to Yelp so there is nothing Yelp gets from you in a non anon way.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#67

Post by inferiorhuman »

microtonal wrote: post #55
Freak_NL wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the data a lot more precise? Perhaps in Apple's own backyard. In the Netherlands it's laughably bad. Cycle tracks? Mostly missing (in a country that has a huge cycling infrastructure). The map doesn't even have building outlines. Google Maps is slightly better, but mostly because of the more extensive mapping of points-of-interest; because business owners add their own information with an almost religious zeal.…

Perhaps in Apple's own backyard. In the Netherlands it's laughably bad. Cycle tracks? Mostly missing (in a country that has a huge cycling infrastructure). The map doesn't even have building outlines. Apple uses Tom Tom data. We never had serious problems with car navigation in Germany where we lived before and in The Netherlands. Bike navigation is indeed bad, but it is also bad with Google Maps once you cycle in na…

Apple uses Tom Tom data. We never had serious problems with car navigation in Germany where we lived before and in The Netherlands.

The car navigation in Germany was fine with Apple Maps for me (although I only used it for one trip), but the public transit info was mostly missing.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#68

Post by m-p-3 »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #53
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not saying it’s clearly better than Google If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. I, too, use Apple as my primary map. In many cases, Apple Maps is better Google. The ones in which it’s behind are more than made up for by Apple’s values.

If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. Is it? Has everyone forgotten the Yelp tracking beacon? Good thing Apple relies on Yelp for business info and has pretty deep Yelp integration with the mobile app.

I wish DDG had the ability to also use OSM for data/map tiles and not just for direction. IMO it would help to make it grow if more people used it and contributed business data on it.

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#69

Post by inferiorhuman »

jeromegv wrote: post #64
inferiorhuman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If privacy is worth something to you, it’s clearly better than Google. Is it? Has everyone forgotten the Yelp tracking beacon? Good thing Apple relies on Yelp for business info and has pretty deep Yelp integration with the mobile app.

Apple have shown times and times again that they wouldn't let 3rd party do shady things into their own Maps app, that's the whole reason they got rid of Google Maps. That's a baseless accusation.

Apple have shown times and times again that they wouldn't let 3rd party do shady things into their own Maps app, that's the whole reason they got rid of Google Maps. That's a baseless accusation.

You're right, if you click around in the Maps app (desktop or mobile) it takes you straight to the shady source (yelp.com).

Edit: Also this:

https://www.courthousenews.com/data-mining-privacy-suit-agai...

Re: DuckDuckGo Expands Use of Apple Maps

#70

Post by duskwuff »

oldgun wrote: post #21

Not sure if it's a lot to ask, but I'll consider it a killer app if DDG can let user opt which map source to choose from? e.g. Some may prefer Google, and some may prefer openstreetmap? Just a thought.

They can't use Google Maps, because Google's Terms of Service for Maps explicitly prohibits using them alongside other map data providers:

> (e) No Use With Non-Google Maps. Customer will not use the Google Maps Core Services in a Customer Application that contains a non-Google map. For example, Customer will not (i) display Places listings on a non-Google map, or (ii) display Street View imagery and non-Google maps in the same Customer Application.

-- https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/terms/

As far as OSM goes, Apple Maps is based heavily on OSM data. (I've submitted corrections to OSM and seen the changes propagate to Apple Maps.) So I don't see much point in supporting two different services which are that closely related.

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