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Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

rootsofprogress.org

451–460 of 515 posts

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#451

>Yet it was a simple mechanical invention As a mechanical engineer, this statement baffled me. All manufactured technology exists in the context of the manufacturing capabilities available to the designer. The manufacturing tech had to be tremendously complicated before a decent bike could be made. Hollow steel tubes aren't simple. Ball bearings aren't simple. There is a reductionist viewpoint among "theory" people t…

This entire discussion is very interesting, with arguments for and against the idea that the underlying materials technology was (or was not) sufficient for a bicycle to have emerged 50 or more years earlier.

This discussion is similar to flawed arguments about evolution. It assumes that at any given point in time, there was an exhaustive search of solution space (in this case for personal transportation). In discussions of evolution, people often propose that a particular solution occurred because it was optimal in some way.

But neither evolution, nor technology development, involves an exhaustive search. Things happened by chance, and some things were not tried as early as they might have been (or they were tried and tried and found lacking in some way), until, by chance, the right conditions allowed the technology (or evolutionary trait) to emerge.

The role of chance is often under appreciated.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#452
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But over 1 hour, no?

No. 1 horsepower, this instant, equals 746 watts, this instant. An average of 1 horsepower over an hour equals an average of 746 watts over the same hour.

Ah right. 746W over 1 hour would be 746Wh.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#453
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depends on the recumbent. Mine (an Azub Six) isn't - I commute through London on it every day. And cities are (slowly) getting better at keeping traffic out of the way. I cycle through through and around traffic. I don't keep myself out of traffic I am part of it. I personally hate being in a cycle lane, because I know that many other cyclists normally aren't paying attention, don't know how to ride (they never che…

> I can track stand at lights, ride down stairs and going round a 90 degree bend is easy. I can almost turn in the bicycles own circle on my old mountain bike. If I need to bail of the bike, I can just drop the bike and roll off. Recumbent handling is different but has its advantages. Steep downhills are easier (while there's no bike I'd be happy riding down stairs on, if I was forced to pick I'd take my chances on t…

>This is "you're holding it wrong" logic. Nope. I did cycle regularly, got my bike fitted, and all that. But there's no getting away from the fundamental physics of pressure = force / area.

Nope sorry it isn't the "your holding it wrong logic". If you do any physical activity that you are unused to you will have slight pains etc. I recently started Thai boxing again and loans behold my body hurt after the workout. Pretending otherwise is simply denying reality.

> Not having to slalom around the potholes comes in handy. Yes you can work around not having it.

Unless the pothole is massive then it is usually moving a foot to the left or right, hardly a slalom. if you can't avoid it then you can either just unweight the front wheel by moving your weight back slightly or just hop it.

None of these are particularly difficult to do (except for maybe the bunny hop, but potholes are rarely that large).

> This is backwards - a derailleur's parts are inherently exposed and vulnerable, an unmaintained derailleur is always going to fail faster than a good-quality hub. The Rohloff recommends an oil change every 5000km, but in fact people ride them for 10000 or 15000 without problems. Derailleurs make sense for enthusiasts who do their own maintenance or racers who want the lightest weight gearing possible, but for commuting or touring they're only used because of price, and the price of hubs will keep coming down.

No it isn't backwards. Derailleur gearing has had over 110 years of development and improvement. They are cheap, reliable and easy to fix and almost never go wrong. Typically only the cassette and chain need replacements (and that is after years of abuse) and a 8-9 speed chain is £10-15 and a 8/9 speed cassette is a few pounds. They take maybe 10-20 minutes to change.

I am sure the Rohloff is better but that is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Ford Fiesta. Sure the Rolls Royce is better and will last 20 life times but it costs 100 times and the cheap Ford will do most of what you want. If we compare Shimano hub gears (which have a terrible reputation) they are more expensive and less reliable and give you less gears.

What you don't seem to understand is that just as I said at the start just because something is technically better on paper it doesn't actually make it better in practice. Sure I am sure hubs are better for most on paper, but much like old languages like Fortran, Shimano, Campagnolo and a bunch of other companies have been working out the quirks in the design since the 1930s.

I would say the whole conversation comes down to the"Worse is better" principle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most fascinating things I've read on this site. Do you know of any resources that go into this in more detail?

See resources around the thread about precision manufacturing. Consider how Industrial Revolution started thanks to easy access to high-density energy sources like coal, and how we've mined and burned pretty much everything that's accessible by hand. Observe how modern mining requires huge amounts of energy and sophisticated technology. It's all intertwined. Consider also the amount of people needed all across the in…

Thanks! I'll check those out. It would be amazing if someone had put together a piece that tied this all together.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#455
post #76
post #61

Roads were a necessety for the invention of bicycles. And by roads I mean roads with a certain standard. Another necessety was a certain type of middle class which would actually desire individual transport. If you are a worker why would you prefer a bicycle over a wagon that transports all tools? If you are an aristocrat, why prefering a bicycle over some comfortable carriage, especially when you don’t even know the…

> Roads were a necessety for the invention of bicycles. And by roads I mean roads with a certain standard. The chicken and egg actually went in the other direction. Bicycles became popular and bicyclists lobbied for better roads.

This is true! A good article about this:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/bicycles-bad-roads-det...

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#456
post #429
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you find day-to-day usability of the azub once you are off the bike? I.e. locking it to a post or bringing it into a building. Do you have the under seat stearing? How do you store it at home/work?

I'll generally just lock the rear wheel to something, sometimes through the luggage rack - there's no real way to lock the frame, but it hasn't been a problem yet (I suspect it's a less attractive target for thieves than a conventional bike). Moving it around a building is pretty much the same as an upright - it's a little longer but still just about fits in trains, bicycle racks etc., and you can wheel it around upr…

I found moving it around in buildings (HP Velotechnik Speedmachine) quite a lot more cumbersome than my regular trekking bicycle. Fitting it through doors/elevators (especially with panniers) but I guess that is what you are eluding to, wheeling it upright and all that.

Did you ever bring it on a train in the UK?

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#457
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wild! I thought nails were way easier because you could maybe just cast them. I guess forging would make them substantially stronger.

Casting parts like that is actually incredibly difficult. The iron will want to freeze before filling the mold cavity, since the cross section of a nail is so small. While tedious & time consuming, hand forging a nail is significantly easier than attempting to cast one. Plus, cast iron is much more difficult than forging simply due to the much higher temperatures required. A simple charcoal fire is adequate for forgi…

Oh interesting! TIL, thanks!

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#458

In 100 years will we wonder why recumbent bicycles took so long to catch on? MIT's David Gordon Wilson, the writer of the excellent book Bicycling Science, had been advocating for recumbents as a more efficient design to replace traditional modern bicycles for decades. http://news.mit.edu/2017/mit-designer-inventor-author-bike-b... and https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/bicycling-science-third-editi...

> In 100 years will we wonder why recumbent bicycles took so long to catch on? In 100 years, most likely only crazy hipsters will know what a bicycle is because everything will be electrified. E-Scooters will eradicate bicycles for most uses in the next 10 years or so.

> E-Scooters will eradicate bicycles for most uses in the next 10 years or so.

That seems completely non-obvious to me. For starters, will Bird et al even continue to exist for 10 years? And even if they do, why would they replace un-electrified bicycles, which have a number of advantages?

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#459
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. 1 horsepower, this instant, equals 746 watts, this instant. An average of 1 horsepower over an hour equals an average of 746 watts over the same hour.

Ah right. 746W over 1 hour would be 746Wh.

Yes.

And, a horsepower-hour is a thing. Railroad locomotives are often used by other railroads than the owner (in the US). Those "foreign" uses are often tracked in terms of horsepower-hours.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write all this up on a single place, it's very interesting.

I just might put it up on my blog. Need to collect references for the things I've been saying first. I first need to finish and ask someone to proofread my long overdue post on my views about advertising industry.

http://jacek.zlydach.pl, yes? I eagerly await this piece. I can think of a lot of people (and groups) who would find it enlightening!
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