Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#91

Post by SEJeff » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

angstrom wrote: post #56

SEJeff wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending Musk at all, but if those pictures were leaked from a Tesla employee, they're in breach of their NDA, a legally binding contract. Why wouldn't they go after someone breaching their NDA? I get that there are whistleblower protections and whatnot, but that is for lawyers and judges to decide. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a team analysing those photos.

It's also worth remembering that innovations in manufacturing are quite often 'short cuts' that have the same or better result with less process.

Agreed. I do wonder why people are downvoting me for pointing out the truth though. Breach of a legally binding contract is grounds for a civil lawsuit. This is how the country works!

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#92

Post by Retric » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #76

travisoneill1 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that they vigorously deny things because they are not true? If even a fraction of the negative things about Tesla in the press were true then their cars would be falling apart on the streets and the company would be failing from low demand. In reality buyers love the cars and they just broke their delivery record again last quarter.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

From that link: Model 3 sedan has “Average” predicted reliability based on owner feedback.

That’s not great, but also not poor reliability. Their high end models do seem to be having issues, but the reliability standards for cars are extremely high these days.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#93

Post by SEJeff » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

tzakrajs wrote: post #83

clouddrover wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

And that’s not even talking about how many cars they have bricked with over the air updates (probably thousands) leaving their owners stranded in the morning.

Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours.

Try that with your toyota!

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#94

Post by jayd16 » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #76

travisoneill1 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that they vigorously deny things because they are not true? If even a fraction of the negative things about Tesla in the press were true then their cars would be falling apart on the streets and the company would be failing from low demand. In reality buyers love the cars and they just broke their delivery record again last quarter.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

But Teslas also have the highest customer satisfaction: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20...

Even if reliability is statistically poor there must be something about the particulars that keeps them afloat. Perhaps the non-essentials are unreliable or perhaps Tesla is able to succeed by cutting corners on things that have been traditionally important but aren't actually important to consumers.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#95

Post by clouddrover » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #92

clouddrover wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

From that link: Model 3 sedan has “Average” predicted reliability based on owner feedback. That’s not great, but also not poor reliability. Their high end models do seem to be having issues, but the reliability standards for cars are extremely high these days.

Car fleet operators find Teslas are not commercially viable because they have too many defects and the repair time is too slow:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-stru...

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#96

Post by usbseeker » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

I doubt these vehicles made it onto the road with the half fixes, they most likely just used the tape to allow the vehicle to move down the line then when the parts were available replaced them before customer delivery. This is probably not apparent and not explained to the untrustworthly assembly line worker.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#97

Post by HeadsUpHigh » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

gjm11 wrote: post #78

sombremesa wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else do you expect from a company where an investor retconned himself into being a founder, including in the Wikipedia entry?

The Wikipedia "Tesla, Inc." and "History of Tesla, Inc." pages both say explicitly that the company was founded in July 2003 by two other people and that Musk joined in February 2004. Is that wrong? If not, what retconning do you see on Wikipedia?

No that's correct. OP is talking bs.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#98

Post by clouddrover » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #94

clouddrover wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

But Teslas also have the highest customer satisfaction: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... Even if reliability is statistically poor there must be something about the particulars that keeps them afloat. Perhaps the non-essentials are unreliable or perhaps Tesla is able to succeed by cutting corners on things that have been traditionally important but aren't actually important to consumers…

The screen is essential in Teslas. The screens have a high failure rate because they're not built to be automotive grade. Tesla went with industrial grade screens and they're not robust enough.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#99

Post by cptskippy » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

close04 wrote: post #68

cptskippy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my point is that the climate of the region is such that I don't see it being an issue to be "outside" and that it might be more pleasant than an actual factory, then again I'm ignorant to the dress code or actual temperature of a typical automotive factory.

The temperatures you listed are close to freezing (sometimes below freezing). Are you sure working in a tent at those temps is "pleasant"? The chances of the tent providing the same levels of climate control as the factory building are close to none which is why workers had to use the radiators against company policy. And the policy makes sense given the clear danger of a fire.

> The temperatures you listed are close to freezing (sometimes below freezing).

None of the temperatures listed were close to or below freezing. Freezing is 32 degrees Fahrenheit, the lowest temperature I mentioned was 42F which is 10 degrees above freezing.

> Are you sure working in a tent at those temps is "pleasant"?

I listed the min and max temperatures as well as the the average min and max temperatures for a reason. The average min temperature is 7 degrees warmer than the min and both would occur overnight.

Is the tent a 24 hour operation? If not then it's unlikely that workers would have to endure the "freezing" 42F weather at all.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#100

Post by travisoneill1 » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #76

travisoneill1 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that they vigorously deny things because they are not true? If even a fraction of the negative things about Tesla in the press were true then their cars would be falling apart on the streets and the company would be failing from low demand. In reality buyers love the cars and they just broke their delivery record again last quarter.

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2...…

Being objective about it would be the press paying the same amount of attention to it as equivalent mistakes of other car companies, which is none. Minor Tesla quality issues seem to get press on par with the VW diesel scandal.