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Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

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Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#61
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AWS is kinda unavoidable, but the rest is not. Even AWS is avoidable. The cloud hosting market is competitive if you'd only look around.

It's unavoidable in the short term. Way too many websites use AWS for a consumer to boycott them, and if you're using it within a company, you can't switch away easily on a short notice. But I agree, if you work for a company that relies on AWS, now is the perfect time to re-examine that decision. They were the first ones to fulfill a niche, but there's a bunch of competition now.

Someone could create an ad-blocking list for AWS IP ranges, for the purpose of such a boycott. (It is actually easier than boycotting most other commodity suppliers.)

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps there should be law that makes is illegal to resell data that you collect. Almost like a first sale doctrine for user data.

First sale doctrine allows the purchaser to resell their purchase, which is the opposite of what you are suggesting.

You can resell a copyrighted book, but you can't make copies and sell those.

Presumably kpU8efre7r is thinking of something similar - which would obviously make life hard for companies like Equifax.

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#63
post #26

What a sneaky wording. > fetches Amazon’s price for products that users see on Walmart.com, Target.com and elsewhere. To me that reads: "we will turn your computer to a node in our scraping botnet". I would guess the internal documents they have will refer to this as market research, but the fact remains that this sounds like a botnet under construction.

It doesn't sound like scraping. What they do is they fetch the prices for their own products when the users browses a competitor. The prices of their competitors' products are already in the open, they won't need them. What they need is the browsing history of their customers in order for whaterver they want to better understand about the shopping process.

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy should be the default. It should continue to be a right.

In a capitalist society, something being a right has no bearing on whether you need to pay for it. You have the right to life, but if you get sick, you need to figure out how to pay for it, and if you can't, you might not be able to exercise that right. You have the right to liberty, but if someone infringes your liberty, nobody is going to give you a lawyer for free and you have slim chances of succeeding without re…

This is correct and one of the best high-level descriptions I've read recently of why American-style capitalism's ultimate conclusion is pernicious social rot.

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#66
What is missing, compared to other platforms, is that there is no revocable consent to prevent and deter third parties from using the collected data in this transaction, no dynamic market based pricing of your data, and no immutable record of the revoked consent or violation on the revoked consent

would love to see Amazon push toward those goals

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#67
post #42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find it a step forward at all. It's a move toward pricing out the privacy-conscious. Right now, auto insurers in Canada will give you a premium reduction if you let them spy on you as you drive. But what happens when that becomes the norm? People end up paying a premium to not be spied on. Eventually privacy becomes unaffordable.

Privacy becomes worth what the market will bear. If that's unaffordable, that's just because it's valuable. There's all sorts of other premiums on the exercise of your rights in a private context. It's very hard to get a job in information sectors that lets you retain copyright of your creative work, or in general a job that lets you exercise your freedom of speech without potentially risking your job. If you have ph…

> If we think that the market should not set a price for certain desirable basic things, it seems like the fault is on society for allowing and encouraging the market to do so in general, not on the market participants for taking rational advantage of it in particular cases.

It can be both.

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I thought this was a popular idea around here: ”We should have to explicitly opt-in to data collection, and when we do we should be compensated for our data!” Then Amazon actually does it and people are angry? If anything, this is a great move in the right direction for both privacy and fair compensation: It’s opt-in (you’re opted out by default), AND you get monetary compensation! What more could you want? Mor…

Google actually does allow significant opting out, including for Google Analytics. I do have problems with their defaults in many of these areas (in my main Google account I have disabled much of the tracking) and also with how certain features (e.g. Google Assistant) tie more of the functionality than necessary to extra permissions with dark pattern nags to grant them all. But the opt-outs are generally there. (Disc…

You may be right that Google and others technically offer some tracking opt-out capability (mostly because they were required to by GDPR), but it doesn’t seem to work, because I still regularly receive targeted ads (relating to recent web activity):

... Despite having painstakingly turned off every available tracking switch from every service I’ve ever signed up to.

... Despite no longer using any services from Google, Facebook, and many others (except when I must via a link from someone else).

... Despite using privacy oriented browsers with all privacy features turned on.

There are so many problems with the current “opt out” model:

1. They do not make it easy to find all these switches. (And it seems intentional, though I can’t prove it.) In addition to there being no global “off” switch, they nest countless switches behind deep hierarchical navigation graphs, where it is extremely difficult for a human to reach every node without missing some.

2. Even when you find the switch, it’s not always clear which choice is the “most off” position, and some switches do not have a “fully off” position.

3. Many switches use extortion to convince you to keep them on: For example, sometimes you’ll be shut entirely out of a service for turning off a tracking switch with dubious explanations as to why they can’t operate the service without it.

4. Many switches will automatically and silently turn back on if you so much as visit the wrong link to their service. Sometimes this happens silently, and sometimes it happens via confusing “dark pattern” prompts.

5. Google isn’t the only one. You have to repeat this whole process for every other service you use (if they even have the switches available).

6. Despite all this, you’ll still be tracked by trackers that don’t need or want you to have an account with them.

The last item can perhaps be summed up by the fact that I still get very targeted ads for things I’ve been searching for on DuckDuckGo even despite all these efforts. Clearly trackers are still embedded into various endpoint web pages and are figuring out what I’m doing despite it all.

It’s an interesting experiment to try yourself: try to actually not be tracked via a regular or even fairly privacy oriented browser.

As far as I can tell, aside from getting into something like Tor, it really can’t be done: If companies can track you, they will. And they can. So they do.

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#69
Since this is causing such an uproar over privacy, instead I'd like to pose some ethical questions:

- Would you be willing to receive a basic living wage for sharing your information?

- Do you think some people's information is valued at more or less than your own and why?

- Would you be willing to receive payment for sharing your information that is valued at what the market dictates? Why?

- Based on the previous question, does your opinion change if the payment was enough to be a living wage (though still varying based on market demands)?

Re: Amazon offers $10 to Prime Day shoppers who hand over their data

#70
post #28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heads up, the union organizing behind the UK strike doesn't want a boycott. > Still, the GMB isn’t calling on customers to boycott the online retailer during Prime Day. “We’re not calling for economic damage for Amazon,” Mick Rix, a union officer told the BBC. “What we’re asking for is for people to be aware. Leave feedback on Amazon.” https://qz.com/1666429/amazon-prime-day-2019-sees-workers-st...

As a rebuttal: > We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral either. https://youtu.be/AQeGBHxIyHw Of course they're gonna say that. All of the other countries listed in that article didn't, so quite a cherry pick you got there.

The article doesn't include any boycott statements for other countries, are the German workers calling for one?

The US strike looks like a flop, with less than 100 protesting and (according to Amazon), only 15 people striking [1].

1. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-says-15-workers-strik...

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