Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

news.ycombinator.com

271–280 of 292 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#271
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. As a result of this decision I make a lot less money than many of my peers, but I'm always working on projects I'm excited about and I have more free time than most of the people I know. If anything, like you, I feel sorry for the people I see working all the t…

Money buys freedom from wage slavery.

In theory, agreed, but just about everyone I know spend their money in a way that multiplies their "wage slavery".

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking for it. BTW... I am never going back to Huffington Post. Wow... the "privacy controls" are sooooo broken.... Sorry. Can't find it. It was really interesting, though. I found a similar article here: $500K and scraping by - https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea... It's interesting how they justify $23K a year for food for a family of 4. But the thing is, I know lots of people who spend th…

You have the other extreme, Mr Money Moustache who claims to feed a family of 4 on about 300 dollars a month: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000... of course, that´s a lot of rice, noodles and beans (not that there´s anything bad with those, but I´d get bored).

Healthy though, variety in your food does tend to increase the number of calories you consume.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#273
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen simnilar calculations putting it at £150k and assuming private schools. To be fair, I would probably agree with that number.

I've lived in London (even fairly recently) on 32K :-) No kids, but a non-working wife... I have a bad habit of taking jobs that look like fun rather than pay well :-D I'm not being sarcastic when I say that you can probably draw that line pretty arbitrarily and make a pretty good case that you are giving up something crucial if you go below that level. Even being single, though, I think it would challenge the most f…

The average London wage is about £35K, not a huge amount more and probably skewed by the super rich.

Having said that I think London is a terrible place to live on a low wage.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#274
post #18

I think there's a process everyone has to go through in life of working out what truly makes them happy. When you're in your early 20s everyone has similar goals - you're going to be a goddamn giant success, no matter what your field is. As the years go on you realise that's not going to happen and you have to re-evaluate. It's not always easy. For me personally, I know I do good work. I know my coworkers can rely on…

What I've seen happen is that people find cognitive-dissonance coping strategies like you describe and just find solace in that. They change their goals "I didn't want that anyway" "It wasn't my destiny to do that" "I'm much happier with this than if I had done that" etc... At the end of the day you either realize your goal, or you change it. You can either pretend like it was the plan all along, admit defeat and try…

Too cynical for me.

I've met quite a few wealthy people during my career and the only ones who seemed happy had a stoical detachment from their winnings. For the rest I would say their drive was verging on a mental illness.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#275
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

https://www.desiderata.com/desiderata.html

(Often more aspirational than practiced. I include myself in this.)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#276
post #10

I have a variety of ways to analyse this: 0) Remember that social media and the press shows the best parts of people's lives and rarely the crappy parts that everyone has. 1) You can't have it all. Often people sacrifice other parts of their lives to achieve in one area. My old boss that got promoted to a very high position never found a partner or children. Other tech friends who have earned a lot have worked thier…

2) Some people have advantages. Eg Bill Gates was a millionaire before he ever finished college, many famous people had privileged upbringings. Bill Gates was a billioniare multiple times over before he finished college, considering that he never received a degree. Harvard did grant him an honorary law degree in 2007, but not before he acquired his wealth.

I think the point is, Bill Gates was already privileged before he got rich.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#277

One way might be to split envy in to: Covetousness Resentment Sadness (Maybe ambition?) Covetousness is really, really, bad. It will eat your soul. It is the desire to take what someone else has for yourself. “I want his car.” “I want his girlfriend.” Resentment can be useful for a short term, but will eat you and cause bitterness if it festers. “I am not paid what I’m worth, I can get better elsewhere.” Is a useful…

In the Arabic language there are two words for envy:

Ghira - What is known as jealousy or envy. Someone has something you want and you hate them for it. You wish you had it even if you took it from them.

Ghibta - Wishing you had what they had without taking it away. You're happy for their success and wish you had a similar one.

When I was taught the two different words as a young person it really affected how I feel in these situations. When I get a reaction to someone having what I want, I make sure it stays within ghibta. It's a case where my vocabulary shaped my thinking process.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#278
post #108

At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. As a result of this decision I make a lot less money than many of my peers, but I'm always working on projects I'm excited about and I have more free time than most of the people I know. If anything, like you, I feel sorry for the people I see working all the t…

Can you give a few examples of things that companies pay you to do that you would still do if unpaid?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#279
post #87

I saw this on reddit and liked it enough, I added it to a short list of things I found on the internet that I liked: > Comparison is the thief of joy. So, don't compare.

This is great approach for hobbies (comparison with the pros can kill any joy in ex. drawing), or if you're independently rich. Unfortunately, in a job you ARE in a competition against other professionals in your field. If you're not competent enough, you will simply not get hired. So, it absolutely makes sense to compare - if only to find out that you're dangerously behind and maybe need to up your game.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#280

I am 36, my job title is a Lead Developer (I made it despite fucking up all of my late teens and the entirety of my 20s), and I have been outclassed in some respects by people in their 20s, and I am at peace with this. You know there is some aspect of jealousy going on here, and being so self-aware in that way is really important and you're half the way there already! So any time you feel that you want to tear apart…

I'd be interested in your take on this as someone slightly older than the cliched tech employee. To be honest, i'm never usually that impressed with people that are in their mid-20s and working as developers. They can typically produce good output, but in my experience they are unable to state 'why' something works well. They're following best practices laid down by people in their 40s/50s years ago. I think they hav…

Don't limit it to the younger developers: we're all doing that all the time! Always have all our lives. We learn a lot of things by imitating, then understanding, then building on that. I mean, I learned English from my mother at a very young age (who was following the best practices of the 1950s) without understanding any of the underlying principles. :)

Likewise, some of the "kids these days" (literally what I call the rest of my much younger development team, and they're just as capable about poking me about my age :)) may be doing that in tech in their early-ish careers. I think it'd be underestimating younger devs to apply that too broadly, because I've seen too many little gems of genius from younger devs.

The way I see my role leading a younger team is to help the folks somewhat younger than me learn from some of the lessons I have learned: to spot code that is going to be a nightmare in the long run, to maybe gain my weird knack of being able to tell people what their bug is without even seeing the code. But they also have a valuable role in teaching me to be less conservative (disposition, not politics) when I should not be, or coming up with brilliant solutions that I was blind to.

If I had a point, it's that there's room in the world for all of us, and that both the old motherfuckers and the Kids These Days have a lot to bring to the table to build up each other. I hope this was useful in some way. :)

Post reply on HN