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How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

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Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#171

Post by TeMPOraL »

derefr wrote: post #80
wongarsu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a device has an HDMI port I know I can use that to connect a display. I don't know details like the supported resolutions, but at least I know that's a supported use case. If I notice that a device has a USB-C port all I really learned is that it has a USB-C port. Who knows what it does.

But that's most port standards that have ever existed. What can a device do with a parallel port? A serial port? A SCSI port? A Firewire port? Who knows? It's up to the device. It can certainly send signals over that port, of some kind. But what kind of signals? Up to the device. The host can hopefully probe a device-class out of the client and stand up an appropriate driver to talk to it. A CD player has a 3.5mm aud…

There's a difference. In most of those cases, you can expect to pull out any fitting cable for that port and the device will do what it's meant to do. There was a little confusion with 3.5mm jack, but the plugs were trivially inspectable (you could count how many connections they had).

With USB-C, whether or not a device will do all, some, or any at all of its functions, depends not just on the device, but on what you're connecting it to and which one of the countless types of cables you happen to have, all of which look identical to someone who's not an EE with appropriate equipment.

Makes me think, maybe I should start selling USB-C cable testers, because if old USB taught me anything, is that you can't trust cable manufacturers to not lie, even if the cable standard is as simple as it gets.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#172

Post by peterburkimsher »

msbarnett wrote: post #7

This only seems to be counting USB-C to USB-C USB 3 cables The actual situation is much worse when you add in passive and active C-to-C Thunderbolt, MHL, DP, and HDMI cables, some but not all combinations of which may or may not optionally support some but not all combinations of other signals as well — eg) a passive TB3 C-to-C cable will support DP and USB3 (but not MHL or HDMI), but an active TB3 C-to-C cable will…

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor supports nothing except Target Disk Mode.

I tried using it to connect a USB-C SSD to my MacBook Pro 2014, using a Thundebolt 2 M-M wire, and the adaptor plugged into the SSD enclosure. It didn't work, though thankfully it didn't fry anything either.

The Thunderbolt adaptor also doesn't work with MiniDP-VGA or MiniDP-HDMI adaptors. So I would need to buy a whole new set of video adaptors if I upgrade my laptop. Needless to say, I'm not in a hurry to do so.

I like adaptors, and I have a large collection in my bag already for video out/in, phone charging, FireWire/Thunderbolt disk mode, and more. But I haven't even started collecting USB-C adaptors because it would only be for friends ("Sorry for the technical difficulties with the projector...") and I don't know which ones will work.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#173

Post by Causality1 »

isatty wrote: post #154
Causality1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bloody goddamned nightmare. For example, a brief review of my devices: >Phone A. Type-C port limited to USB 2 data speeds but supports HDMI out via DisplayLink. >Phone B. Type-C port that supports USB 3.1 speeds but doesn't do video out. >Tablet A. Type-C port that supports USB 3 speeds but only charges through a MicroUSB port. >Tablet B. Type-C port that supports USB 3 speeds and charging, but only charges at…

Okay so you've a bunch of different devices that have different capabilities - can you also mention the different cables you had to get (I'm just curious). In my case I have a switch, 2 macbook pros (2018, 2019) and an iPad pro (11.5") and I've not had much of a hard time finding cables, at least for power.

The only cable issue I've run into is that there are cheap MicroUSB to type-C adapters that are sold without a necessary 56Kohm resistor, which limits its functionality. It won't charge at high speed and it also prevents type-C devices from using OTG mode to talk to accessories like flash drives, mice, and cameras. There are also a few quirky combinations, like the fact a OnePlus Dash charger will absolutely refuse to provide power to a Switch while most phone chargers will power the handheld portion just fine if not the dock. A little too well in fact, as I had a RAVPower "40W 3A" car charger melt while using it to power a running Switch in the car.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#174

Post by dbuder »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #112
wmf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-IF already has certification but they aren't willing to kill off non-certified cables (which are 99% of the market).

I wonder if this puts them at risk of losing the "USB" trademark because they're not actively defending it.

You can't call your cable a USB cable without getting it certified, their IP is protected. Does your average Aliexpress seller care, no. The comment above theorizes making non certified cables not work, which for a passive cable is not going to happen, but with active USB C cables could be a possibility.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#175

Post by Xelbair »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #168
jwr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? The whole catchy idea behind USB-C (unfortunately perpetuated here by people who should know better) is that there is ONE SOCKET, ONE PLUG and ONE CABLE. Oh, the dream of using a single connector. Unfortunately, this is far from reality and the result is a complete mess, which is why I'm not a big fan of the whole USB-C thing. Especially given that I'm a…

I wish USB-C mandated one cable. Just one. If you cut anything out of it, if you did anything out of spec, it's not a valid USB-C cable anymore. You either have all features, or no features. There's nothing benefiting customers from this cable mess. It only enables dishonest businesses, as customers can't tell cables apart until they plug them in and try to use them.

You would get usb-C bootleg cables with missing features. Instead of having USB-C branding on them, they'll have generic 'works with any modern phone!' etc.

I mean cable with all the features is damn expensive if you compare it to the usual(shitty quality) USB2.0 cables. Most folks would buy cheaper one because difference in prices between USB2.0 and USB-C with all features would be too high. It would feel like a rip-off to them.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#176

Post by rxhernandez »

jwr wrote: post #157
jrochkind1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? They seem to have either no names or too many names where it's unclear what is intended for the consumer. Just giving the cable a clear name (in words, not icons), so you could know what you were buying, and a device could say "you need this kind of cable", and a person could write a blog saying "to support DP-Alt-Mode you need X kind of cable" and all use…

> Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? The whole catchy idea behind USB-C (unfortunately perpetuated here by people who should know better) is that there is ONE SOCKET, ONE PLUG and ONE CABLE. Oh, the dream of using a single connector. Unfortunately, this is far from reality and the result is a complete mess, which is why I'm not a big fan of the whole USB-C thing. Especially given that I'm a…

> Especially given that I'm a hostage, because a certain computer company whose computers generally suck the least, decided to show courage by moving to USB-C

Since when was USB-C such a major issue on Thinkpads?

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#177

Post by flukus »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #112
wmf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-IF already has certification but they aren't willing to kill off non-certified cables (which are 99% of the market).

I wonder if this puts them at risk of losing the "USB" trademark because they're not actively defending it.

Given the mess they've made is the certification/trademark actually worth anything? If what cable works with what devices is going to be a crap shoot anyway then it's not like it's a meaningful seal of quality to end users.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#178

Post by dstaley »

I'm particularly interested in the last paragraph. Is there anything out there that can read these emarkers and tell me the capabilities of a given cable? I have so many USB C cables that I honestly don't know which support what, so it'd be nice if I had a way to definitively determine their capabilities.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#179

Post by chaosite »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #170
TeMPOraL wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish USB-C mandated one cable. Just one. If you cut anything out of it, if you did anything out of spec, it's not a valid USB-C cable anymore. You either have all features, or no features. There's nothing benefiting customers from this cable mess. It only enables dishonest businesses, as customers can't tell cables apart until they plug them in and try to use them.

That would certainly mean cutting features. Thunderbolt limits the length of the cable to ~50cm, but that's way too short for a power cord.

Thunderbolt 3 cables can definitely be different from fully featured USB-C cables though. They're also labelled differently, with the Thunderbolt lightning bolt mark.
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