Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts • Hacker News Board

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#11

Post by nemothekid » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

temp1827 wrote: post #8

I mean, he has a point. It's clear U.S. tech companies have become hugely susceptible to hiring foreign spies and the issue of foreign governments stealing IP is real. There was a very recent public case of Apple's autonomous driving unit stopping a Chinese engineer from leaving the country just as he was bound for China after detecting he had uploaded a bunch of code to a personal account. And most likely many more…

1. Almost every tech company has been acutely aware of China stealing IP for decades now. It's not a new point.

2. Where did Thiel make this point? Thiel does not make the point that the Chinese are stealing US IP. He makes the charged point that Google executives (and somehow not Facebook executives) are Chinese agents. To that claim, I don't think he "has a point".

It's in very bad taste to me that Thiel would point this out, and claim the Valley "is getting a little bit of a bad conscience" when he sits on the board of the biggest troublemaker.

When Google leaks the personal data of millions of Americans, then maybe should Thiel start throwing stones.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#12

Post by tedunangst » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

temp1827 wrote: post #8

I mean, he has a point. It's clear U.S. tech companies have become hugely susceptible to hiring foreign spies and the issue of foreign governments stealing IP is real. There was a very recent public case of Apple's autonomous driving unit stopping a Chinese engineer from leaving the country just as he was bound for China after detecting he had uploaded a bunch of code to a personal account. And most likely many more…

Isn't that a problem that Google should be themselves be seeking to solve? Is it typical for the government to help protect companies' IP by investigating them for treason?

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#13

Post by invalidOrTaken » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:22 AM UTC

steve19 wrote: post #2

Thiel is on Facebook's board. So he is on the board of a Google competitor and a company with atrocious morals. Maybe he is just trying to take the heat off Facebook and send Congress in a different direction.

Nah. For better or for worse(I think better, but I can understand thinking otherwise) he's a true believer.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#14

Post by temp1827 » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:23 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #11

temp1827 wrote: post #8

I mean, he has a point. It's clear U.S. tech companies have become hugely susceptible to hiring foreign spies and the issue of foreign governments stealing IP is real. There was a very recent public case of Apple's autonomous driving unit stopping a Chinese engineer from leaving the country just as he was bound for China after detecting he had uploaded a bunch of code to a personal account. And most likely many more…

1. Almost every tech company has been acutely aware of China stealing IP for decades now. It's not a new point. 2. Where did Thiel make this point? Thiel does not make the point that the Chinese are stealing US IP. He makes the charged point that Google executives (and somehow not Facebook executives) are Chinese agents. To that claim, I don't think he "has a point". It's in very bad taste to me that Thiel would poin…

The article says "He then suggested Google’s actions were “seemingly treasonous,” asking whether DeepMind or Google senior management had been “infiltrated” by foreign intelligence agencies."

To clarify, by stealing I also mean infiltrated by spies that are hired as employees who in turn provide information to foreign governments...

And yes, of course this could happen to Facebook as well, but as of today Google/MSFT/Amazon/Autonomous vehicle companies/chip manufacturers are in a different league than Facebook as far as IP that is interesting from a military perspective goes.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#15

Post by cscurmudgeon » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #11

temp1827 wrote: post #8

I mean, he has a point. It's clear U.S. tech companies have become hugely susceptible to hiring foreign spies and the issue of foreign governments stealing IP is real. There was a very recent public case of Apple's autonomous driving unit stopping a Chinese engineer from leaving the country just as he was bound for China after detecting he had uploaded a bunch of code to a personal account. And most likely many more…

1. Almost every tech company has been acutely aware of China stealing IP for decades now. It's not a new point. 2. Where did Thiel make this point? Thiel does not make the point that the Chinese are stealing US IP. He makes the charged point that Google executives (and somehow not Facebook executives) are Chinese agents. To that claim, I don't think he "has a point". It's in very bad taste to me that Thiel would poin…

Negligence can be a crime under the right conditions.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#16

Post by darkpuma » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:26 AM UTC

Probably worth noting that deliberately aiding the Chinese military is not treason in America right now because America and China aren't at war. It might be other things: unpatriotic, espionage, etc. But not treason itself. Even the Rosenbergs didn't get convicted of treason (America and the Soviet Union were not actually at war. It was illegal to give nuclear secrets to the Soviets, but it wasn't treason.)

So generally whenever somebody in America mentions treason, they're being hyperbolic or misleading, or have themselves been mislead. Generally.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#17

Post by DuskStar » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:26 AM UTC

temp1827 wrote: post #10

schappim wrote: post #9

Related story on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20439624

Why was that flagged?

I would assume because the Bloomberg article and Gizmodo article have rather different levels of bias, and that Bloomberg and Gizmodo have significantly different levels of credibility.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#18

Post by nemothekid » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:27 AM UTC

temp1827 wrote: post #14

nemothekid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Almost every tech company has been acutely aware of China stealing IP for decades now. It's not a new point. 2. Where did Thiel make this point? Thiel does not make the point that the Chinese are stealing US IP. He makes the charged point that Google executives (and somehow not Facebook executives) are Chinese agents. To that claim, I don't think he "has a point". It's in very bad taste to me that Thiel would poin…

The article says "He then suggested Google’s actions were “seemingly treasonous,” asking whether DeepMind or Google senior management had been “infiltrated” by foreign intelligence agencies." To clarify, by stealing I also mean infiltrated by spies that are hired as employees who in turn provide information to foreign governments... And yes, of course this could happen to Facebook as well, but as of today Google/MSFT…

>To clarify, by stealing I also mean infiltrated by spies that are hired as employees who in turn provide information to foreign governments...

Again, this isn't new. This has been happening for decades - just ask Cisco. Wether is treason is one thing, but I'm not arguing it doesn't happen.

The radical statement Theil is making here, is that the _executives_ are compromised, and that they _actively_ sabotage the USG in getting Google tech while also sending that information abroad. This is an extraordinary claim that I'm less inclined to take seriously from someone who has been been both negligent in how his own company has handled the data of Americans in his own country and also stands to gain, via Palantir, the weakening of Google's relationship with the USG.

>Google/MSFT/Amazon/Autonomous vehicle companies/chip manufacturers are in a different league than Facebook as far as IP

I think what is effectively surveillance data on 90% of Americans is a far higher bar than Autonomous vehicle data that hardly works outside of Palo Alto.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#19

Post by docker_up » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:27 AM UTC

temp1827 wrote: post #8

I mean, he has a point. It's clear U.S. tech companies have become hugely susceptible to hiring foreign spies and the issue of foreign governments stealing IP is real. There was a very recent public case of Apple's autonomous driving unit stopping a Chinese engineer from leaving the country just as he was bound for China after detecting he had uploaded a bunch of code to a personal account. And most likely many more…

I find it hard to believe that there AREN'T droves of spies from every single country working at Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. If there aren't, they're not doing their jobs.

Re: Thiel Urges U.S. Probe of Google's 'Seemingly Treasonous' Acts

#20

Post by ALittleLight » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

thrwayxyz wrote: post #4

I interviewed with him once. Got on the short list by telling the recruiter that "Palantir is a bunch of really smart guys run by a Bond villain". Not sure if that ever got back, but not being thrown out of the process tells me a lot about the company.

Doesn't it say as much about you that you were applying to work there?