'My son spent £3,160 in one game' • Hacker News Board

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#181

Post by opportune » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:46 PM UTC

hardwaregeek wrote: post #167

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

I think, like with other addictions, you need to take a holistic view of video game addiction that also includes the circumstances of the addicted people during their transition from casual use, to abuse, to addiction.

Why? Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol. And while you might be able to chalk some of it up to addictive personalities (predispositions to addiction regardless of circumstances) I'm guessing a lot of it comes down to environment more than pure chance.

For video games, I think there are a few serious structural/societal issues leading to addiction. First and foremost is that keeping kids busy is hard, and the lowest effort way to keep some kids busy is to give them video games. Couple that with most kids not being allowed to just wander around outside anymore, and living in a car culture where they can't drive, and video games become the primary way most kids can play with other kids.

A lot of video games addict will tell you that the thing that keeps them coming back to games are usually 2-3 things: well-defined goals with clearly actionable tasks to be completed to meet those goals (getting level 99 or a specific rare item, etc.), the community aspect, and the feeling of proficiency/accomplishment. In real life, important goals are harder to meet and less well-defined, much higher stakes, and are done over the course of months/years instead of hours/days/weeks, so video games are much preferable to hitting goals in real life. Social isolation is prevalent so videogames can easily replace that. And in real life, not everybody can be a winner, yet in videogames everyone can feel like a badass for grinding out a skill requirement or getting a rare/expensive item.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#182

Post by elamje » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:47 PM UTC

Games can be an escape, just as book reading can be an escape. The problem lies in that the book ends, but the game goes on for months, years, or decades.

Many people bring up the positivity of quitting, or minimizing, social media. The same thing could be extended to gaming.

I have quit social media, only using twitter to follow my interests, and quit gaming back in high school. Both of which took many, many weeks away from my life.

I am amazed at how much time I have outside of work compared to my peers that are hooked on social media or gaming!

All that being said, neither are evil, and both can be fun, but for many people they silently rob you of precious time, and peace.

It helps to view things not on a micro, hours per day, scale, but on a lifetime scale. 2 hours gaming daily, 5 times a week, from age 10-30 is well over a YEAR of your life! Now consider the binge gaming phases of life and it certainly takes a lot shorter of a time to hit 1 year.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#183

Post by fkdo » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:49 PM UTC

d1zzy wrote: post #179

hardwaregeek wrote: post #167

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

Anything can be an addiction, meaning if it stops you from going to school/work, building and maintaining relationships, having food and shelter then it qualifies IMO. So while I support trying to help people in this situation I would be careful to not make it harder for everyone else that is responsibly enjoying those things.

Yes but it seems like many video game designs are engineering towards exploiting addictive behavior.

This is predatory business behavior.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#184

Post by d1zzy » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:49 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #26

ajross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." For centuries, it's been trivially possible for parents to manage their children's access to funds. Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default hav…

> Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default have access to near infinite (at their scales) lines of credit because of internet purchasing. Huh? The old model is working just as well as ever. Why would you give your kid your credit card? Have them make their internet purchases with a gift…

Almost all major credit cards have a system to generate virtual card numbers with dollar limits on them. Generate a virtual card number with some limit, give to the kid or configure it on their device. Every time you need to increase the limit you have to login on a site that only the parent has access to.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#185

Post by fkdo » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:51 PM UTC

elamje wrote: post #182

Games can be an escape, just as book reading can be an escape. The problem lies in that the book ends, but the game goes on for months, years, or decades. Many people bring up the positivity of quitting, or minimizing, social media. The same thing could be extended to gaming. I have quit social media, only using twitter to follow my interests, and quit gaming back in high school. Both of which took many, many weeks a…

> I have quit social media

The comments section of Hacker News is social media.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#186

Post by nine_k » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 11:58 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #126

nine_k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A three-years-old should not have an ability to spend money using a card, period. Much like a three-years-old should not have an ability to light matches, or push a screwdriver into a power socket, or operate a chainsaw.

They aren't using a card though, at least not directly. They are playing a game. It sounds like many games are set up to 1) encourage you to enter account information at some point and 2) not make it obvious when you are going to spend more "real" money. Obviously these situations could be avoided in various ways, but I think it's being pretty hard on parents of young kids to blame them entirely for "falling for" sce…

I do have kids, and make abundantly sure that any payments on my kids' devices go through Play / App store (not a card directly), and always require a password. It does not require technical knowledge; both systems clearly show relevant controls at every purchase.

I see how being a parent of a young and active kid can be exasperating. But, if anything, it should increase the level of healthy paranoia :)

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#187

Post by jsgo » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 12:08 AM UTC

kevin_b_er wrote: post #106

jsgo wrote: post #71

I stopped buying FIFA/Madden/etc. games. The team building mode seems like it'd be fun, but oh damn, you only have x games you can use that specific player so you have to buy contracts which costs points and good luck trying to stack your team with various players by making good trades vs the spend funds approach. Give me a game where I can play it and GM it in such a way that if I make Joe Blow look like a star, I c…

You are permanently limited on how many times you can make a team with a player unless you pay more?? As someone who's never touched the sports games who grew up on old non-internet consoles that you can't replay the same thing is utter madness. You can't use the same player over in another attempt??? Do you run out of players?

From my personal experience, I played for like 2-3 weeks. You get a starter set with mostly mediocre cards (card based UI) and then one decent and then a great card (defensive player for me and a few other people I know; don't know if it can be someone offensive).

From there, you can do little skill things for points which can be turned in for either more cards or contracts. These are mostly skill drill type things and not really "I'm playing a football game as my team vs the Bears" or something though there are some. Don't know if the events refresh so you can unlock more points as I only played a few weeks. So there's the no pay options of keeping things going as far as I could tell.

One week I got a Greg Olsen card as part of some event promo thing. Worked very well as a tight end in Ultimate Team. A week or two later it was around Super Bowl or something and received Dak Prescott. So solid passing tandem. Then, after a few games, contracts are coming up. At first it was Dak and it cost a lot to keep him. Then, I had burned so many on him that I didn't have many left for whoever it was that was my DE (it was a moderately good stats guy. Not great, but serviceable). So I lose him and the second string guy takes his spot. After a few more games, another boot falls and more attrition. Lost Greg Olsen because I was a few contracts short and just quit because it was basically a team of second string players by then.

Dunno, I'm all for a GM/player hybrid mode, but I'd rather feel like I'm gaining something when losing something on the GM end.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#188

Post by kaokien » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 12:12 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #16

filoleg wrote: post #2

Another one of those oversensationalized outrage articles that can be boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." There is literally a setting on iOS for that specific specific scenario, which allows to prevent in-app purchases[0]. And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidd…

> "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." For centuries, it's been trivially possible for parents to manage their children's access to funds. Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default hav…

That is a horrible example, homesteaders give their children an appropriate amount to purchase goods, a better example of parents who fall victim to their children purchasing in app purchase would be a homesteader that gave their child access to their family fortune while believing a child could make a correct financial decision.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#189

Post by kaokien » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 12:19 AM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #96

madeofpalk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still though, they gave the kid their credit card. If you don't want your kid to spend £3000 then don't give it to them? Not defending any particular app's behaviour. Without any first hand knowledge, I certainly believe that there are scummy games out there using dubious methods to get people to rack up IAP.

> they gave the kid their credit card These systems are set up so you really don’t have much choice, though. My son will come to me and say, “Dad, I have some money from Grandma, can I use it to buy willywhacker 2 for my iPod?” I’ll say, “sure” - then he’ll hand me the $5 he got from Grandma and I’ll type my credit card number into wherever the game expects it to be and try to check the “don’t remember this card for…

You can purchase specific amounts for a lot of vendors, take the time to research the product and plan accordingly and many parents will not have these issues. If using the apple App Store it is the easiest I've come across with setting limits, controlling downloads and purchases, you can add funds instantly so your child never has your card number. Unfortunately everyone believes they never have the time, even though these devices are easier then setting up a family PC was in the early 00's

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#190

Post by hashberry » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

hardwaregeek wrote: post #167

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

I also like to compare video games to porn. It's achievement porn that can replace hobbies, creative pursuits, and working (lots of unemployed men game all day), just like porn can replace sex and relationships.

I remember first playing WoW and thinking how dumb and childish it was. Then it sucked me in and I became obsessed with it, especially PvP. It made me realize that games with cartoon graphics such as Fortnite specifically target children and young teens.