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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#191

Post by NTDF9 »

A lot of these conversations miss two aspects completely:

1. Smart STEM people are more inclined to having a family. Constant uncertainty is not conducive to family. That will cause a lot of smart people to be sea turtles.

2. The most significant drawback of smart people congregating elsewhere is that future American companies are fucked. There is just going to be a lot more competition for products globally. Future Apple will have to fight Chinese companies in India. Mariott will have to fight Oyo in China. Future Tesla will have to fight BYD in Europe.

A LOT of our stock wealth is because other companies couldn't innovate as rapidly because the US was draining those countries of this talent pool. With this reversal, American companies will have a smaller pool of talent and will get whacked everywhere. Its super unfortunate.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#192

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

pinkfoot wrote: post #66
Rch_East wrote: post #43

It doesn't make sense for America to educate its rivals. We should also be wary of Universities turning into backdoor immigration schemes - this has already happened in Australia and lead to a massive reduction in education quality. The focus should be on training Americans to fill American jobs - and any immigration scheme should be arranged with military, economic, and cultural Allies only (UK, Canada, Australia, N…

Is that the full list?

For the sake of American cuisine, at least France should be added to the list.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#193

Post by magduf »

asdfman123 wrote: post #84
roboys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 times less likely to get murdered in China than in USA. Sounds like a better place to raise a kid too.

Keep in mind there is a distinction between rich America and poor America. If you are not poor you have little risk of getting murdered. I want to raise my kid in a place where you can speak out about human rights abuses and not censor yourself because the government is listening.

But you have to worry about being reported to CPS or even arrested if you let your kid go outside by himself.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#194

Post by hostilerhetoric »

dang wrote: post #185
hostilerhetoric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is literally zero precedent for what you’re talking about. Immigrants jailed in the US because of import taxes? Because of a trade rework? Never. We interred Japanese after Japan commuted one of the largest terror attacks in US history, that’s it.

Would you please not create accounts to do political battle on HN? That's against the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . We want thoughtful conversation here, not flamewars.

No dang, I won’t stop because what I’m doing is not against the rules. This is not a political issue, it’s an issue of facts that happens to be about a political topic.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#195

Post by zzz95 »

kec wrote: post #166
zzz95 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you see that? USCIS in its bulletins never releases the number of years only the year it is processing. If you extrapolate the EB-1 wait for Indians, it is closer to 9 years, but most people are in EB-2/3 which is 50yrs out.

The August bulletin currently lists April 2010 for India EB-3 (October 2017 for EB-1). If you go back through the last few years of bulletins, this 9 year wait has been relatively stable. Unless you believe there's been a massive spike in applicants in the past few years, there's no reason to believe the current wait for new applicants is 50 or 70 years.

I don't think that's quite right. Have a look at Indian EB-2 . The August 2014 bulletin [2] lists the current year as 22JAN09 which has moved to 02MAY09 in the August 2019 bulletin [1]. This means that in the last 5 years, they have moved from Jan09 -> May09. Very stable!

[1]https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

[2]https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#196

Post by hostilerhetoric »

my_first_acct wrote: post #178
hostilerhetoric wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a single time that Donald trump has said that he wants to prevent highly intelligent, highly educated people from other countries coming here. Name a single instance of it. I defy you to.

Welcome to HN. A quick Google search on "Chinese grad student restrictions" yielded an article [1] from December 2018 with the headline "US Considers New Restrictions on Chinese Students". The source is the US government's own news outlet, Voice of America. [1] https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/trump-administration-c...

If your user name is accurate then I should be welcoming you because I’ve been here a decade. Good job, you actually responded in a rational way. I hadn’t heard of this. Still, this is not what I asked for. This is not hateful rhetoric. Furthermore, it is not a statement by trump or his administration that highly skilled and educated people are not to immigrate here. It’s an expression of intent to stop Chinese people specifically from committing espionage. It has nothing to do with letting people immigrate here who actually intend on immigrating here and nothing else. The reason I’ve never heard of it is because Chinese espionage is a real problem and doesn’t fit well into the liberal dogma.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#197

Post by axaxs »

flyinglizard wrote: post #184
noir_lord wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talk to quite a lot of Americans online and many of them really are not aware, as they are programmers they generally earn good (by UK standards very good) money but then you start talking to them about what good health insurance for a family of four costs and suddenly things start to look different. I think in some respects the US has coasted on it's former economic glory - I mean sure Silicon Valley is a mecca fo…

Isn’t health insurance, in the case of tech workers at least, usually covered by the employer?

Typically, only partially. I don't even remember what I pay now, but it's more than a couple hundred per month. And that still has out of pocket costs, deductibles, etc. It's a giant scam.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#198

Post by yomly »

baybal2 wrote: post #188
yomly wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What industry do you work in now? What kind of salaries are developers of 5ish years experience earning?

1. Electronics. Consumer and industrial 2. Just for any engineering job in China there is a personal "middle income trap" of around net CNY25000-30000 per month. You reach it, and your career progression stalls, possibly for a decade or so. Progress past the formal "senior" level is a rare, rare luck. At 30000 net a month, you can live very very well in China.

Any idea what people at BAT earn?

30k rmb isn't bad for being in China but also isn't great at global level...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#199

Post by natalyarostova »

fatjokes wrote: post #64

More than that: the US gov't has declared their own tech giants a threat. Meanwhile, the Chinese gov't is supporting theirs as a potential goldmine on all fronts: national security, foreign policy, economic.

It's slightly concerning that in the US there is increasing pressure to force tech companies to not support our government in its military needs, but the Chinese military is fully supported by theirs.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#200

Post by mstaoru »

yorwba wrote: post #65
asdfman123 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at how much it costs to rent an apartment in Shanghai. If you're hiring developers you're not going to put your offices in the countryside just like the US isn't hiring many programmers in rural Missouri.

Renting an apartment in Shanghai isn't necessarily that expensive, it just costs a lot if you want to buy one. E.g. here are listings for 1000 yuan per month or less: https://sh.zu.fang.com/house/c20-d21000-n31/ I wouldn't believe any of the other claims made (e.g. the size is probably exaggerated), but behind each of these listings is someone willing to actually offer living space for that price. The highest price c…

Welcome to China. These listings are all fake.

Real "bottom" for non-shared apartment in Shanghai is ~3000 rmb (~$500) for a smallish place with a 1+ hour commute. Rents in the downtown are around 10000+ rmb.

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