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How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

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Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#91

Post by Godel_unicode »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #79
starsinspace wrote: post #42

After buying a screen which has only a USB-C DP-Alt-Mode input, I was recently in the market for a matching cable. My only requirements were “it should be as long as possible, at least 2 meters” and “it needs to support DP-Alt-Mode”. Now I thought this would be easy, just ask Google what kind of cable I need, right...? Well... no. Not at all. I wasn’t able to find any information whatsoever what kind of USB-C cable i…

Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? They seem to have either no names or too many names where it's unclear what is intended for the consumer. Just giving the cable a clear name (in words, not icons), so you could know what you were buying, and a device could say "you need this kind of cable", and a person could write a blog saying "to support DP-Alt-Mode you need X kind of cable" and all use…

They did, kind of. USB2, USB3.1 gen 1, and USB 3.1 gen 2 are 480mbps, 5gbps/DP-alt-mode and 10gbps/DP-alt-mode, respectively. The problem is really that people won't remember that distinction unless they need to know it regularly, and unless you know to Google "difference between USB 3.1 gen 1 gen 2" you won't be able to figure it out.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#92

Post by Godel_unicode »

ajross wrote: post #89
jrochkind1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? They seem to have either no names or too many names where it's unclear what is intended for the consumer. Just giving the cable a clear name (in words, not icons), so you could know what you were buying, and a device could say "you need this kind of cable", and a person could write a blog saying "to support DP-Alt-Mode you need X kind of cable" and all use…

> Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? Exactly! We can call the one for small peripherals "USB", the one for monitors "VGA", the one for networking "ethernet", the one for power "AC"... I suspect most users can figure out how to manage that. Snark aside, I actually agree with you. The market powers that be completely messed this up. Basically, phones have limited port space. And for their ben…

Camera connectors and card readers work on most Android phones, and it's awesome to be able to swap them back and forth with my laptop. If you work at it a little so do USB drives and yubikeys. I can also charge my laptop, phone, camera, headphones, and tablet from one charger.

I'll take 10 minutes extra effort every few years to order the correct cable in exchange for that...

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#93

Post by krick »

bobthepanda wrote: post #75
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

So frustrating. One would think that after nearly 2 decades of consumer confusion over USB cables that it would be possible to just mark the cables in a clear way with a non-confusing, easily looked up logo (or better, with a alphanumeric-code). It makes me wonder if manufacturers are just doing this to increase the churn of cable sales, so consumers end up buying more cables because "some work and some don't".

Even better, why not just make incompatible cables impossible to intermix by, say, using different ports ?

Well, cables in question are mostly backwards-compatible, so as long as it would actually transition forward, the prospect of using a single ultimative cable with any device with identical ports seems actually nice. The problem is not that USB-C is a bad standard trying to combine too much in a single port, the problem is that there are multiple different cables absolutely identical from the outside at one time on the market and not only they are not color-coded (as it was with USB3 long time ago) to be distinguishable, manufacturers don't even bother to write on the box what exactly standard/generation this is. That is, even when you specifically buy a cable in a box, not even to mention situations when some piece of wire came to you with a phone or whatever.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#95

Post by wmf »

Simulacra wrote: post #86

It has become beyond ridiculous. We need to standardized around one cable. I get it, we can't have government doing this, but I'm at a complete loss for who else could? IEEE?

USB-IF already has certification but they aren't willing to kill off non-certified cables (which are 99% of the market).

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#96

Post by breatheoften »

sambroner wrote: post #61
derefr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is supposed to be easy; it's "you need to buy one of those really expensive USB-C Thunderbolt 3 cables, because those cables—the ones that do everything—are supposed to be the only type of USB-C cables." USB-C cables are supposed to be universal, i.e. have all the features, all the time; and thus, USB-C cables should (in 2019) be very expensive. Any USB-C cable that isn't very expensive (in 2019) isn't fol…

Can you link to some cables that are certified to implement the entire standard? Even that has been difficult for me to find.

I actually don’t think any of the above commentary is true.

More expensive doesn’t necessarily mean more support ... thunderbolt is not usb-c even tho they have the same connector on the end ...

If you are in the market for an expensive and long thunderbolt cable — caldigit makes one. I just bought it and felt annoyed at paying 50 dollars for a cable — but I’m also glad for the technology needed to make this cable possible to exist so ... maybe I can swallow this as funding the future?

https://www.amazon.com/CalDigit-Intel-Certified-Thunderbolt-...

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#97

Post by Dylan16807 »

ajross wrote: post #89
jrochkind1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? They seem to have either no names or too many names where it's unclear what is intended for the consumer. Just giving the cable a clear name (in words, not icons), so you could know what you were buying, and a device could say "you need this kind of cable", and a person could write a blog saying "to support DP-Alt-Mode you need X kind of cable" and all use…

> Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? Exactly! We can call the one for small peripherals "USB", the one for monitors "VGA", the one for networking "ethernet", the one for power "AC"... I suspect most users can figure out how to manage that. Snark aside, I actually agree with you. The market powers that be completely messed this up. Basically, phones have limited port space. And for their ben…

> Exactly! We can call the one for small peripherals "USB", the one for monitors "VGA", the one for networking "ethernet", the one for power "AC"... I suspect most users can figure out how to manage that.

Wrong kind of names. For these cables, all you should need to know is a speed rating. And they almost work that way, but the ball got dropped in a few places and the cables are badly labeled, so it turns into a nightmare.

> And for their benefit, and only their benefit, we've tried to cram together the entirety of device I/O into one multi-pronged standard that was clearly never going to work.

I can't agree at all with that. The needs of phones were already satisfied by USB micro, long before any of this cramming started. USB-C's complication is not because of phones.

And even though the data connection is rarely used, it sucks to not have it available for file transfers and backups and tethering. And barrel plugs are terrible for charging on the go. You have far fewer outlets than USB, and there are too many different sizes.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#98

Post by kllrnohj »

derefr wrote: post #57
starsinspace wrote: post #42

After buying a screen which has only a USB-C DP-Alt-Mode input, I was recently in the market for a matching cable. My only requirements were “it should be as long as possible, at least 2 meters” and “it needs to support DP-Alt-Mode”. Now I thought this would be easy, just ask Google what kind of cable I need, right...? Well... no. Not at all. I wasn’t able to find any information whatsoever what kind of USB-C cable i…

The answer is supposed to be easy; it's "you need to buy one of those really expensive USB-C Thunderbolt 3 cables, because those cables—the ones that do everything—are supposed to be the only type of USB-C cables." USB-C cables are supposed to be universal, i.e. have all the features, all the time; and thus, USB-C cables should (in 2019) be very expensive. Any USB-C cable that isn't very expensive (in 2019) isn't fol…

Note that Thunderbolt 3 is not part of the USB 3.2 standard. It's the basis for USB 4, but right now to be fully standards compliant with everything USB-C itself can fully do you do not need to be Thunderbolt 3 compatible, because thunderbolt 3 is not part of the spec at all.

And even if you wanted to be Maximum Compatibility even with Thunderbolt 3 you may not have that option as TB3 tops out at a cable length of 2 meters, and at that length you're dealing with half-rate bandwidth (just 20Gbps instead of the full 40Gpbs - which you only get up to 0.5m)

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#99

Post by breatheoften »

The standard absolutely needs to support the ability for computer and peripherals to detect what kind of cable is connected ... then we need consumer level implementation at the os to tell people when their cable is insufficient for the task they are trying to accomplish — with this, bring on all the cost saving measures for cables.

Without it — fucking idiot standards committees can go rot in hell for the blight they wrought upon the world ...

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#100

Post by Dylan16807 »

vxNsr wrote: post #54
manacit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm remembering correctly, it's not that far off from the (blue?) color coding with the USB A connector to indicate USB 3 support for particular ports? Either way, when power gets involved as well, that is a terrible user experience. I had a friend bring over a Dell laptop with a USB C port that I naively assumed had TB3 support (it was listed as being "optional" on Dell's website). Turns out that the only way to…

My understanding of Dell's implementation is that the TB port has a little thunderbolt next to it while the usb-c one doesn't.

Not to be confused with the little thunderbolt next to some USB ports that indicates charging capability.
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