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'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#61

Post by gringoDan »

This seems to be the equivalent of buying digital scratch-off lottery tickets. So you could make the argument that in-app purchases should be regulated in the same way that gambling is.

However, you could also argue that it's the equivalent of buying a pack of Pokémon cards, baseball cards, etc. - which are not regulated.

My intuition tells me that given the addictiveness and how this disproportionately affects the most vulnerable members of society, the practice should be regulated much more tightly. Also, given that these are digital goods, a more relaxed "return" policy shouldn't harm any company that is offering in-app purchases in a good-faith / non-exploitative manner.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#62

Post by schnevets »

djhworld wrote: post #12

The amount of crap in the app stores that encourage this sort of behaviour is truly, truly shocking. The gaming community often lambast companies like EA etc for loot boxes ("surprise mechanics"), which is definitely a problem that needs to go away, but from this article I suspect there's a lot of examples of absolute bottom of the barrel shovelware on the app stores that's raking it in from accidental purchases from…

I was just having an internal debate about the merits of a spending cap. I'm not usually one for such blunt regulation, but there really is no way to justify spending +$100 on mobile games daily unless an individual is addicted, deceived, or in some other way psychologically manipulated.

Although society would probably benefit from similar caps in casinos, and I doubt that regulation will ever arrive be legislated.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#63

Post by megous »

o_p wrote: post #13
darkpuma wrote: post #3

It's astonishing that the developers of games like this can sleep at night. Do they lie to themselves and pretend all the kids spending thousands of dollars are the children of Saudi royals or something? They must know that they're exploiting people who can't afford it. Edit: these developers know damn well if their target demo is children, and they know damn well that the phenomenon of children running up huge debts…

One would assume that children spending was authorized by their parents.

Who spends the price of an iPhone (per month, for months on end) on some stupid game?

One (game dev) would have to be very much full of it, to assume this is legit. And, that they never responded to the parents tells it all.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#64

Post by djhworld »

madeofpalk wrote: post #25
djhworld wrote: post #12

The amount of crap in the app stores that encourage this sort of behaviour is truly, truly shocking. The gaming community often lambast companies like EA etc for loot boxes ("surprise mechanics"), which is definitely a problem that needs to go away, but from this article I suspect there's a lot of examples of absolute bottom of the barrel shovelware on the app stores that's raking it in from accidental purchases from…

> Maybe any transaction should have a 2FA style system It does - at least on Apple devices, IAP need to be authenticated with a physical interaction, and Touch/Face ID.

I was thinking more as in, sending the approval to a separate device, but obviously that wouldn't work if you just have one device that you let your kids play on.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#65

Post by HenryBemis »

madeofpalk wrote: post #23
notus wrote: post #14

This is disgusting. Yes parents should be aware of these things but shifting the burden of locking down every system a child uses when this could be handled at the app store or financial processor level is ridiculous. It seems that some of these people are claiming that the game is not distinguishing well between fake and real currency. There are definitely games I've played where this is ambiguous as well. IMO there…

But still though, they gave the kid their credit card. If you don't want your kid to spend £3000 then don't give it to them? Not defending any particular app's behaviour. Without any first hand knowledge, I certainly believe that there are scummy games out there using dubious methods to get people to rack up IAP.

I use a "7 accounts setup" for my finances. One of my accounts is labelled "Internet" and has no more than £50-£100 at any given moment. It is the card used for Paypal, Amazon, Spotify, etc. If that card gets compromised I won't lose more than that, and my bank will most likely return the funds (yes even if it's just a Debit Card). If the account runs low then Spotify won't get paid in time and I won't cry about it :)

I was inspired by this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=auzLhKvsxnQ

I always had multiple accounts but this vid and a discussion with friends (bankers and accountants) helped us all develop (each his own) 7 (or more) accounts setup. Imagine a "Dave Ramsey envelope system", but online.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#66

Post by falcolas »

filoleg wrote: post #2

Another one of those oversensationalized outrage articles that can be boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." There is literally a setting on iOS for that specific specific scenario, which allows to prevent in-app purchases[0]. And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidd…

Defaults matter. We say this all over the place when designing interfaces. None of these solutions being proposed are the "default". The "default" is to make it as simple and straightforward as possible to give the platforms and developers money.

Worse, all it takes is one mistake on one device to open up a whole can of financial woe when it comes to a child on a device.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#67

Post by nine_k »

fortran77 wrote: post #50
madeofpalk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still though, they gave the kid their credit card. If you don't want your kid to spend £3000 then don't give it to them? Not defending any particular app's behaviour. Without any first hand knowledge, I certainly believe that there are scummy games out there using dubious methods to get people to rack up IAP.

Some of this is "bad parenting", but games that say they're OK for 3 year olds (like the mini-golf game described in the article) shouldn't make it easy for a 3 year old to spend money. I have less sympathy for the high-school and college kids who did this.

A three-years-old should not have an ability to spend money using a card, period.

Much like a three-years-old should not have an ability to light matches, or push a screwdriver into a power socket, or operate a chainsaw.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#68

Post by [deleted] »

willk wrote: post #11
filoleg wrote: post #2

Another one of those oversensationalized outrage articles that can be boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." There is literally a setting on iOS for that specific specific scenario, which allows to prevent in-app purchases[0]. And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidd…

These games were not just on Apple's platform. I think these types of games are predatory. What is wrong with just selling a whole game? It is hard to find any game these days that comes out complete. Blizzard did it with Star Craft 2 and for that reason, I refused to buy it.

[deleted]

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#69

Post by jbob2000 »

pkaye wrote: post #54
_1qd4 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare this to the real world. You are in a store and your child heads to the counter with $3,000 worth of goods. He puts your credit card on the counter. At this point, the clerk would ask if mommy or daddy were around and probably would deny the purchase. But the digital world? Come right up little johnny!

How to tell the difference between an adult and a kid online assuming the adult gave their credit card to the kid?

That’s something for these businesses to figure out. In the real world, we had the advantage of the card holder needing to be present.

Maybe the model needs to change to force digital currency purchases to happen outside of the game? That way the purchase is divorced from the play and the parents can still retain control.

Or maybe accounts need to be set up in “child mode” by default, which caps spending at $50/month?

Or maybe the game rating agencies can be made to mark all games with micro transactions as Mature (since they basically need an adult present at all times to make decisions about the game)

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#70

Post by Kiro »

filoleg wrote: post #36
willk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These games were not just on Apple's platform. I think these types of games are predatory. What is wrong with just selling a whole game? It is hard to find any game these days that comes out complete. Blizzard did it with Star Craft 2 and for that reason, I refused to buy it.

I agree with your point about non-apple platforms. I cannot enumerate all of them, but it would be silly of me to expect all of them to handle that scenario gracefully, and I believe they should be required to. However, Starcraft 2 is complete and been this way since the inception. They added microtransactions years after the full release, and they all boil down to cosmetics and other completely optional and non-nece…

They mean the fact that the game came out in instalments, which is a ridiculous complaint and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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