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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#91

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70
whoevercares wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working class Chinese family in many cities now could also afford a two year master program(e.g Stony Brook U only cost me about RMB 300k for the entire Master with a decent CS program). My family is just normal working class with yearly income about 100k RMB. It’s not quite accurate to attribute all masters to “Rich” because ordinary income has been flying in China

True, but then I bet those students are still more into studying STEM than their richer counterparts who are more likely studying liberal arts or biz subjects.

Little wonder when we get "math is hard" Barbie.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#92

Post by robbrit »

Does anybody know how hard it is for non-Chinese citizens to live and work in China?

One of the competitive advantages of the US has been its ability to draw top talent from all over the world and not just its own citizens. Chinese citizens leaving the US is not a good thing, but it is just one nationality. If China manages to draw talent from everywhere, then the US has a real problem ahead of it.

For example, my team in the US only has a few US citizens on it, most of us are foreigners who moved here for the opportunities. While a few are Chinese, the majority are from countries other than China and the US.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#93

Post by deogeo »

vkou wrote: post #40
asdfman123 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No want wants to live in that kind of environment? In the US, Trump says mean things about certain types of immigrants. In China, you can be jailed with no due process for speaking out about human rights abuses. Also, better hope you're not in a religious minority. Don't say anything bad about the government, because they're watching you!

> In the US, Trump says mean things about certain types of immigrants. If you think the extent of America's hostility against certain types of immigrants is limited to Dump Truck saying mean things on Twitter, I'm not sure what to tell you. [1] DT doesn't exist in a vaccum. There's a powerful, xenophobic political movement that has made him president, and there's a mainstream political party that wins more elections…

> There's a powerful, xenophobic political movement that has made him president, and there's a mainstream political party that wins more elections than it loses, that panders to that constituency.

So very powerful, winning so many elections, yet they barely made a dent in even just legal immigration - it is still above 1 million per year, and the white population went from 85% in 1960, to 63% in 2010 [1] - a period during which the party that panders to xenophobia won more than half the elections, as you say.

Meanwhile the non-xenophobic China has 1 million immigrants total, and is 91% Han-Chinese [2] - homogeneity and demographic isolation beyond anything depicted in works criticizing fascism like Man in the High Castle.

That the country taking in the most immigrants, and so rapidly changing its demographics, gets labeled as the racist xenophobic one, while the closed ethno-state gets no criticism of its immigration policy, is a sick joke.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#94

Post by stickfigure »

howard941 wrote: post #57
hello_moto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement seems true without context but false with context. Allow me to provide the context: If you're a Chinese internantional student living in the USA where the #1 guy in the country uses Identity Politics as its arsenal to win and lead the country, you, as an outsider, will feel insecure w.r.t of races. If you're a Chinese international student coming back home to your country of origin, you're used to the…

> yes, I'm dead serious, Americans want everything and they don't like rules Best not be so serious: You're mistaken. Is a whipping a proper punishment for chewing gum left on a Singapore sidewalk? > Step inside a land/house by accident and gets killed by the homeowner's M14 is just... nuts (yes I know I'm exaggerating a bit). Does the dead seriousness lead you to believe Americans approve of this nutso reaction?

Is a whipping a proper punishment for chewing gum left on a Singapore sidewalk?

The last time I stepped in chewing gum I felt the answer was an unequivocal yes.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#95

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Causality1 wrote: post #68
ASalazarMX wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they pay full tuition? Even if they don't stay, it's a smaller net gain they study in USA.

Yes, but that also means they drive up the price of tuition and the academic requirements of admission for American students just by existing as consumers of the "student slot at university" product.

Foreign students usually pay at a higher tier. They effectively subsidize the local students at schools that have been actively courting Chinese money.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#96

Post by vkou »

asdfman123 wrote: post #41
jhedwards wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was living in China this didn't bother most of the Han Chinese I met. Most of them were so concerned about lifting their families out of poverty and providing for their future that if you said to them "but you can't speak out about human rights abuses" they'd just look at you like "why the hell would I want to do that".

Maybe they don't talk about it because they know they are not allowed to talk about it. I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." It's probably smart if you're from an authoritarian country.

> I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that."

If she's considering immigrating to the United States at any point in the future, she would be wise to not debate anything that has to do with the United States, in any electronically recorded medium.

All visa/status adjustment applicants now have to turn over their social media identities. It would be prudent for her to not express a viewpoint[1] that might have an adverse impact on her immigration.

[1] What are those viewpoints? We don't know - CBP won't tell anyone. And whatever they will tell, may very well change in the future.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#97

Post by deogeo »

robbrit wrote: post #92

Does anybody know how hard it is for non-Chinese citizens to live and work in China? One of the competitive advantages of the US has been its ability to draw top talent from all over the world and not just its own citizens. Chinese citizens leaving the US is not a good thing, but it is just one nationality. If China manages to draw talent from everywhere, then the US has a real problem ahead of it. For example, my te…

Very hard, especially for non-ethnic Chinese, as there is about 1 million immigrants in China, total (that's 0.07%):

> He said the policies, much like those of Japan and South Korea, were “predicated on a very strong nation-state that defines itself as the home of a particular ethnic and cultural group that wants to maintain its purity and wants to let in only what it really, really desperately needs.” [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#98

Post by Dig1t »

ronnier wrote: post #78
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I wonder how much of this has to do with relationships? If I was Chinese man who came to America for school and was single, I'd move back to China too. Study after study shows that the dating game odds are not good for that particular demographic in the US.

Dating game odds are way worse in China actually, what with the massive shortage of women.

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2017/11/23/a-distor...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#99

Post by xxxpupugo »

Did I read it correctly? Threatened 'brain drain'? So 'brain drain' to US is being viewed as a positive thing?

I think the idea is to send people back to build their countries, not to stay here to build America. This is indeed a good news that we are spreading the talents and knowledge and eventually prosperity more evenly across the globe. US has enjoyed this monopoly over talents for too long, and that is probably not a good thing and definitely shouldn't be taken for granted.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#100

Post by FreedomToCreate »

robbrit wrote: post #92

Does anybody know how hard it is for non-Chinese citizens to live and work in China? One of the competitive advantages of the US has been its ability to draw top talent from all over the world and not just its own citizens. Chinese citizens leaving the US is not a good thing, but it is just one nationality. If China manages to draw talent from everywhere, then the US has a real problem ahead of it. For example, my te…

Its very difficult to get any type of semi-permanent/permanent work visa for foreigners in China. A lot of foreigners who go to Shenzhen to work on a hardware start-up, are doing it illegally in technical terms. They are all on business visas on which you can't start a business in China. And beyond just work, civil liberties are extremely limited in China. You are good as long as you don't get the government looking at you.
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