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You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

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Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's OK, we nowadays use icons that don't make sense to anyone at all. I mean how would you know that three horizontal lines was a "Hamburger menu", and if you do know that, why would you want a Hamburger?

Actually the icon looks like three menu items. It is a pretty good icon for signaling that it will open a menu. The hamburger nomenclature seems to be an ex pos facto name for something that rightfully should be called the menu icon.

I can only speak for myself, but for me who grew up with C64, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, Linux, Windows XP more Linux etc that icon still didn't make sense until I got it explained.

Then again, the magnifykng glass icon for search didn't make sense either until I read the docs but at least back then people made docs and kept the UI stable enough so that it made sense to learn it.

I still remember fondly being good with OLE (Object Linking and Embedding) in a Microsoft Works.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two observations: 1) A site that isn't ready for a screen reader probably isn't ready for a voice browser or other non-visual user agent. Say, an AI/digital assistant. Or perhaps even a search engine indexing bot (though for the last 10-15 years the incentives behind this often mean people will invest heavily, even non-cooperatively, in this specifically). 2) Projects for which the engineering takes into account the…

Ux Engineering manager here for a fortune 100 company. We don't care about any of the use cases in your comment. If our JavaScript doesn't work in your browser, you are a security risk and we don't want our site to work on your browser. Please call our 1-800 number to talk to a representative.

> Ux Engineering manager here for a fortune 100 company.

That doesn't mean much these days when it comes to ux :-) Edit: so until we know what company you work for we don’t know if you are part of the problem or fighting against the problems.

If anything modern ux is an exercise in embracing mystery meat navigation.

I recently got an iPad and while I like it a lot it is an exercise in frustration and DDG-ing to find out if something is missing (like select all in mail) or if someone has just come up with another "intuitive" way to hide it: slide in? slide in from the right? pull down on a list that is already on top? Touch the top bar? Long touch? Turn device sideways?

I'm almost not joking when I say usability was better in the 90ies:

Ever present menus, hover to get tooltips, context menus and documentation.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#73
The fundamental assumption here seems to be that users are basically interchangeable:

> There is no real need to keep observing the same thing multiple times

That may be true for some simpler products, but I helped out with some user research on an analytics tool, and there was quite a diversity of feedback from the first two batches of users.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#74
post #49
post #27

Ha, as a web designer I long for the ability to test with even one user before launch day. Rarely do I get room in the budget for that :(

You don't have $10? Come on.

This might sound condescending, but it is a good point. Anyone can be a test user, you don't need to formally hire people with a contract etc (unless your work is contractually classified, but that's a whole other bag of beans). You can ask colleagues from other departments, people at a coffee shop, friends etc.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a brutally unfair interview practice unless you were told in advance they’d be doing that.

They gave me a small project to do, and told me to do it as though I were building it for a customer. I think that was warning enough that it ought to gracefully handle bad input — any real-world program needs to do the same.

To be honest, unless they explicitly discussed this with you before, or went through it with you afterwards, I'm with empath75 on this one. We used to do something like that at $former_workplace and every once in a while, a candidate would come up with a program that didn't validate (most of) the input or failed in similar trivial ways.

It turned out that some of them, indeed, simply didn't care -- and didn't know, either. We'd explain what the problem was and they'd shrug or say they'd seen breaking like that, too, you fix it if it turns out someone actually breaks it.

Others, however, would skip it so that they could focus on stuff that was more complicated or more relevant. They'd validate one set of inputs, just to show that they know it needs to be done and can do it, but not everything. Or they'd throw in a comment like //TODO: Validate this by . Most of the time we'd just ask them to talk us through some of the validations -- and most of the time they could write them on the spot.

You could argue that this is very relevant in real life, and that even if it weren't, what's relevant is the interviewer's choice, not the candidate's (although tbh the latter is one of the reasons why tech interviews suck so much).

But at the end of the day it is an interview setting, not a real-life setting, no matter how much you try to make it seem otherwise. At the end of the day, the people doing it are still young candidates trying to impress their interviewers, not company employees working on a company project under the supervision of tech leads. You don't end up with much useful data unless you allow for some flexibility in this sort of experiment.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#76
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's OK, we nowadays use icons that don't make sense to anyone at all. I mean how would you know that three horizontal lines was a "Hamburger menu", and if you do know that, why would you want a Hamburger?

Actually the icon looks like three menu items. It is a pretty good icon for signaling that it will open a menu. The hamburger nomenclature seems to be an ex pos facto name for something that rightfully should be called the menu icon.

> the icon looks like three menu items

It's a nondescript icon made of three horizontal bars, it looks like literally anything that comes in threes. My mom calls it the pancake button and my fourteen year-old nephew used to call it the button with something that looks like a fork but without a handle until he switched to the "meh" button once he became a nihilist (teenagers do that stuff sometimes). A menu with three items is very likely to be among the last things that crosses a non-techie's mind.

At this point it's been used enough that anyone with enough exposure to electronics knows what it does, but it's hardly a better choice than the "File" menu. The point of making something intuitive, as opposed to explicit (i.e. by using a symbol as opposed to spelling out) is kindda missed if you need to "well actually" it and explain why it means whatever it means.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#77
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's OK, we nowadays use icons that don't make sense to anyone at all. I mean how would you know that three horizontal lines was a "Hamburger menu", and if you do know that, why would you want a Hamburger?

Actually the icon looks like three menu items. It is a pretty good icon for signaling that it will open a menu. The hamburger nomenclature seems to be an ex pos facto name for something that rightfully should be called the menu icon.

I disagree. It took around two years of seeing hamburger menus before it clicked that it was a common symbol for a menu. Its getting worse and seems to be getting replaced by 3 vertical dots now.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#78
post #71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the icon looks like three menu items. It is a pretty good icon for signaling that it will open a menu. The hamburger nomenclature seems to be an ex pos facto name for something that rightfully should be called the menu icon.

I can only speak for myself, but for me who grew up with C64, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, Linux, Windows XP more Linux etc that icon still didn't make sense until I got it explained. Then again, the magnifykng glass icon for search didn't make sense either until I read the docs but at least back then people made docs and kept the UI stable enough so that it made sense to learn it. I still remember fondly being good with OLE…

The old days seemed so much more intuitive when there was a crappy low res icon with text underneath.

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#79
post #15

Reminds me of the small “sample size misconception” https://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/9/656465/-

This article presents standard error as the quantity representing "by how much our prediction could be off" without mentioning that this is only so for a single standard deviation.

For a normally distributed value, one standard deviation only covers around 68% of the cases so you'd have to at least double that error value if you want to be pretty sure of your conclusion (which would then cover around 95% of the cases).

Re: You Only Need to Test with 5 Users (2000)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two observations: 1) A site that isn't ready for a screen reader probably isn't ready for a voice browser or other non-visual user agent. Say, an AI/digital assistant. Or perhaps even a search engine indexing bot (though for the last 10-15 years the incentives behind this often mean people will invest heavily, even non-cooperatively, in this specifically). 2) Projects for which the engineering takes into account the…

Ux Engineering manager here for a fortune 100 company. We don't care about any of the use cases in your comment. If our JavaScript doesn't work in your browser, you are a security risk and we don't want our site to work on your browser. Please call our 1-800 number to talk to a representative.

> If our JavaScript doesn't work in your browser, you are a security risk and we don't want our site to work on your browser.

Sorry, what? Why am I security risk for not wanting to run the arbitrary code that your website sends me? (I browse with JavaScript turned on, FWIW, so this is a hypothetical question for me.)

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