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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#142
post #11

You’re already halfway there by recognizing that mentally bringing someone down is a waste of time, and that the only point is to feel better about yourself. Both being jealous and mentally knocking people down are pretty normal human things to do. If you listen, you’ll notice lots of people say things out loud that have the undertone of here’s why you’re not that great or here’s why I’m better than you. Sometimes it…

>Another way to approach this is acknowledging that some people are actually very talented, some people are very focused and work incredibly hard.

It's also worth remembering that these talented, hard working, people didn't author their talents or tendencies for working hard. Their talents and temperaments derive completely from their genes, upbringing and to varying degrees luck. I.e. they can't really - in the ultimate sense - take credit for their success. Nor can I.

>Another way to deal with this is meditation.

I've found meditation a great way to more deeply instill the disposition above. It has helped me celebrate - rather than seethe - with people when they 'achieve' any kind of success.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#143

I've yet to meet someone I would trade places with. If they're smarter than me, maybe they make less money. If they're richer than me, and smarter, maybe I don't care for their spouse. Or they're in bad physical shape, or they're neurotic and difficult to be around. If all else fails, you can consider how many people have it worse than you, and how, even if you had it worse, it would still be ok. Until a man is twent…

In what novel is that excerpt from?

It's from Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#144
Wound up parting ways with the company.

Because NOBODY else there was ever going to have the opportunity to be a "high-flying" developer.

Basically, there were a few engineers that had gained the trust of upper management. The "chosen few" engineers were talented, though not spectacularly so, and had also saddled the company with their share of mistakes and lots of technical debt.

This created a cycle where:

1. The "chosen few" developers got all of the greenfield(-ish) development work -- the only work at the company where it was really possible to move quickly, hit deadlines, and "wow" people

2. The "chosen few" developers got to make nearly all of the technical decisions, and if you weren't one of them you were stuck forever implementing somebody else's idea of a good solution

3. The "chosen few" developers were always solving challenging issues, which made them look impressive to management, who lacked the technical ability to understand that a lot of these issues were actually caused by the "chosen few"'s poor decisions in the first place.

4. The "other" developers were always plodding waist-deep through technical debt, much of it caused by the "chosen few."

I was there for only four years but eventually it became clear that there was literally no way for me to shine there. You can't shine when doing maintenance work on legacy nightmare code. I became jealous of the "chosen few" (or, perhaps more accurately, I grew resentful of management) and grew a bit bitter and burned out. My work suffered and I was eventually let go.

That was one year ago.

Now I'm making 25% more money at a different company where I'm 100% more productive and 100% happier. =)

     When someone younger than me, in my field, is making more money 
     / getting more acclaim / winning praise from people I respect, 
     it makes me seethe. Sometimes I even waste my time looking for 
     a way to invalidate them, to put an asterisk* on their success, 
     so I can feel better about myself.
I think a key question is, "Are you jealous because they're more talented than you? Or are you jealous because they have been given opportunities that you have unfairly been denied?"

If you are jealous because they are more talented than you, then YOU are the problem. Get better, find something you're the best at, or (perhaps most healthily) accept the fact that you can be a perfectly valuable human being without being the best at something.

If you are jealous because you're not given a fair chance, then THE COMPANY is the problem.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#145
FWIW, Buddhism breaks down various mental afflictions, of which Greed is one. Afflictions are pollutants to seeing things as they are, and it helps to allot run-time bandwidth to spotting them and hopefully, discarding them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleshas_(Buddhism)

Edited:

The above helps a person to manage their own Kleshas. But if it is the other person's that is bothering you, then it helps to cultivate a mind of acceptance (according to Buddhism, that is).

And to quote the Bard from Othello:

Who steals my purse steals trash;

’tis something, nothing;

’twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands;

But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed.”

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#146

At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…

My question to people with this attitude is, what is the point of your life?

I've lost a lot of friends and recognize that life is way too short to not be putting as much time as possible toward something you find totally compelling. The stock answer is contentment and "happiness."

The most content person I've ever met was a flower cart man in Belmopan, Belize. Probably made $100 a week at most. He knew all he wanted to do was bring beautiful flowers to people and give them a smile. He had a point in life. Sure he had kids, but he knew that they would move on one day and do their own thing, and he wanted to be known as the best flower man in Belize so he got up early to start and worked late.

This pervasive idea that "it's just a fucking job" is ultimately a milquetoast cop-out. Spend your hours doing something that has impact to you.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#149
post #18

I think there's a process everyone has to go through in life of working out what truly makes them happy. When you're in your early 20s everyone has similar goals - you're going to be a goddamn giant success, no matter what your field is. As the years go on you realise that's not going to happen and you have to re-evaluate. It's not always easy. For me personally, I know I do good work. I know my coworkers can rely on…

What I've seen happen is that people find cognitive-dissonance coping strategies like you describe and just find solace in that. They change their goals "I didn't want that anyway" "It wasn't my destiny to do that" "I'm much happier with this than if I had done that" etc... At the end of the day you either realize your goal, or you change it. You can either pretend like it was the plan all along, admit defeat and try…

Wow. Your appraisal is bleak and, fortunately, disconnected from reality. Cognitive dissonance, indeed!

Think about any life goal that requires significant work, such as "I'd like to be a superstar engineer" or "I've got no savings, but I want to save up and buy a house" or "I'd like to become a black-belt martial artist" or "I'd like to publish a successful novel."

How long does it take to achieve something like that?

There are a lot of goals in life that take five, ten, or even more years to achieve.

Now here's the thing...

If you're doing this life thing correctly, you will gain a significant amount of wisdom and perspective in any five- or ten-year span.

And with that wisdom and perspective comes the realization that some of your old goals weren't worth achieving. Or perhaps you will simply find other goals you like better. Or a different path to the same goal. That's not cognitive dissonance. That's learning and growing.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#150

I've yet to meet someone I would trade places with. If they're smarter than me, maybe they make less money. If they're richer than me, and smarter, maybe I don't care for their spouse. Or they're in bad physical shape, or they're neurotic and difficult to be around. If all else fails, you can consider how many people have it worse than you, and how, even if you had it worse, it would still be ok. Until a man is twent…

That’s an interesting thought that I’ve never personally had. I know dozens of people whose lives I’d rather have.
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