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Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

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Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#121

Post by viraptor »

spodek wrote: post #54

Reducing is strategic. Reusing and recycling are tactical. If your strategy is in place, use all the tactics that contribute to it. But if you don't have your strategy in place, tactics can do nothing or even move you backward. Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. We are stepping on the gas, thinking we're stepping on the brake. Covered in episode 183 of Leadership and…

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction.

What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#122

Post by derp_dee_derp »

svd4anything wrote: post #118

“Reusable straws and bags are often more resource intensive than single-use ones. Ever noticed that plastic bags and straws are both incredibly thin and incredibly cheap? Almost no resources go into making each one — it’s kind of amazing.“ I’m confused by these new plastic bag rules in some cities. What is the underlying reasoning that was used to advocate for them?

Virtue signalling. Everyone uses plastic bags, everyone has a whole bunch of them under their kitchen sink.

Politicians took a highly visable problem that affects the majority of their constituency and "solved" it.

It doesn't matter if it's an actual problem or not to politicians, it only matters if their voters think it's a problem.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#123

Post by mc32 »

viraptor wrote: post #121
spodek wrote: post #54

Reducing is strategic. Reusing and recycling are tactical. If your strategy is in place, use all the tactics that contribute to it. But if you don't have your strategy in place, tactics can do nothing or even move you backward. Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. We are stepping on the gas, thinking we're stepping on the brake. Covered in episode 183 of Leadership and…

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?

Not OP but if you look at packaging you can find examples where it’s in an industry’s interest to create disposable packaging over recycled packaging. Be it plastics, glass, aluminum, tin or cardboard. But also your “cell” batteries and clothing, etc.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#124

Post by spodek »

viraptor wrote: post #121
spodek wrote: post #54

Reducing is strategic. Reusing and recycling are tactical. If your strategy is in place, use all the tactics that contribute to it. But if you don't have your strategy in place, tactics can do nothing or even move you backward. Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. We are stepping on the gas, thinking we're stepping on the brake. Covered in episode 183 of Leadership and…

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?

It promotes their growth -- say packaged good companies like Coca-Cola, Trader Joe's, or Starbucks. Clothing companies like H&M and Zara. Most unnecessary material stuff.

A statistic from The Story of Stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff comes to mind that something like 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year.

Manufacturers slap the word "recyclable" on those products to get people to buy more of them, hence growth.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#125

Post by greglindahl »

sthatipamala wrote: post #119
greglindahl wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point out anywhere that's made all of 1..3 work successfully? I'd think that most places have 0 of the 3.

I believe Japan follows this system. It was very confusing when I visited because they sort their waste into combustible and non-combustible, instead of trash vs. recycle.

I know that many places have modern incinerators, but that's only 1 of 3. If it was in the US, I'd expect that actually sorting trash effectively would be a big problem, despite having a modern incinerator.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#126

Post by ajross »

angry_octet wrote: post #67
ajross wrote: post #4

This is true enough (in some markets and some circumstances, yada yada), but sort of missing the point. A world where all the Good Liberals are trained to recycle everything into hand sorted artisinal bins that they keep next to their compost containers is one where people think about what they purchase and push for public policies that worry about resource consumption in ways that benefit all of us. A world (we live…

Container deposit for aluminum works pretty well. Steel is relatively easy to extract from trash with magnets. Separating methane producing non-toxic waste might be meaningful too. But having people wash/transport/sort plastics which can't be recycled is bad, and shouldn't be incentivised. Making corporations pay for non-recyclable plastic is a market mechanism which fiscal conservatives should applaud. Casting this…

> Making corporations pay for non-recyclable plastic is a market mechanism which fiscal conservatives should applaud.

Citation needed. That sounds like socialist insanity to me. So sure, I applaud it. I just don't see these "conservatives" you are taking about. Even at the level of local politics this tends to be a partisan issue. And you sure sound like a democrat to me...

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#127

Post by TheRealSteel »

t34543 wrote: post #37
wbraun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully share this cynicism about recycling things that are not aluminum or glass. It also seems that by making people feel better about generating nominally recyclable waste they are encouraged to consume more. I am at least familiar with arguments against US-style airport security and donating cans of food, but whats wrong with hybrid cars? I don't know of any arguments that they are net neutral / harmful.

Lithium battery production is extremely harmful to the environment.

Most hybrids use nickel-metal hydride batteries. Also, the doubled emissions from a non-hybrid over the lifetime of the vehicle are massive.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#128

Post by viraptor »

spodek wrote: post #124
viraptor wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?

It promotes their growth -- say packaged good companies like Coca-Cola, Trader Joe's, or Starbucks. Clothing companies like H&M and Zara. Most unnecessary material stuff. A statistic from The Story of Stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff comes to mind that something like 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year. Manufacturers slap the word "recyclable" on those products to get p…

You're right! I was thinking only of corps not producing physical products, but that's only one part of the world.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#129

Post by triangulum »

pokeymcsnatch wrote: post #114
cannonedhamster wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's food/greade on the item that can't be removed for one reason or another toss it, it can't be recycled efficiently. There solved your moral dilemma. Generally only clean paper, glass, and metal are recyclable. Plastics depend entirely on the locality and still require it to be clean. Also I work at a food pantry. Donations of canned goods are always welcome, same for razors, toiletries, etc. Anything that c…

> There solved your moral dilemma. Recycling has built up such inertia as the "moral" path, regardless of its inefficiencies for most materials, that it's become an unsustainable clusterfuck that we can't move away. Where I live, it's been codified- municipalities must recycle, and also must discourage landfill-bound waste. The result is that I've been issued a 64-gallon mixed-recycling bin that is picked up once a w…

That’s a good point: if municipalities want you to recycle, they need to provide the necessary infrastructure, and that means at least three source separated bins (ideally 5-7), and a clean container collection system. Otherwise it just turns people off the whole system. A financial incentive to save money when you don’t throw away as much into the landfill bin helps too.

Any chance you could compost the kitchen scraps in your garden?

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#130

Post by throwaway10928 »

skybrian wrote: post #82
Liron wrote: post #30

We really shot ourselves in the foot with this whole pointless "recycling paper and plastic" thing huh? The convenience of throwing something away is a triumph of modern civilization and one of life's little pleasures, and we had to ruin it by acting like it's wrong when it's actually not. When I walk up to some wastebins holding a papery-plasticky object with a bit of food stuck to it, my heart sinks. Now I have to…

It seems like compostable containers might be more practical, since the food and container go into the same bin?

Could also consider not throwing out food. I know servings in the US are huge, so either share the meal with another person or ask for a meal size that you can eat and no more.
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