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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#101

Post by klenwell »

I'm reminded of an apocryphal story I read somewhere about an exchange between Kurt Vonnegut and Joseph Heller that was supposed to have taken place at a fancy party hosted by a successful hedge fund manager.

Google reveals various versions and sources of the exchange. Here's mine:

Vonnegut: Can you believe this guy? He makes more money in a single day than we'll make in our entire lives. And you wrote Catch-22!

Heller: Sure, but I have something he'll never have.

Vonnegut: Yeah, Joe? What's that?

Heller: Enough.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#102

Post by IggleSniggle »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #56
untog wrote: post #18

I think there's a process everyone has to go through in life of working out what truly makes them happy. When you're in your early 20s everyone has similar goals - you're going to be a goddamn giant success, no matter what your field is. As the years go on you realise that's not going to happen and you have to re-evaluate. It's not always easy. For me personally, I know I do good work. I know my coworkers can rely on…

What I've seen happen is that people find cognitive-dissonance coping strategies like you describe and just find solace in that. They change their goals "I didn't want that anyway" "It wasn't my destiny to do that" "I'm much happier with this than if I had done that" etc... At the end of the day you either realize your goal, or you change it. You can either pretend like it was the plan all along, admit defeat and try…

I agree with all of this except the final sentence. All of these options seem sustainable, although some more desirable than others. But which did you mean to suggest was the sustainable one?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#104

Post by kamfc »

Who was it that said "comparison" is the source of all evil? Everyone gets caught up in it. What to do that works for me is to practice gratitude and feel inspired from people ahead of me regardless of age. They might just end up as a boss, friend, partner, lover, savior.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#105

Post by DonHopkins »

klenwell wrote: post #101

I'm reminded of an apocryphal story I read somewhere about an exchange between Kurt Vonnegut and Joseph Heller that was supposed to have taken place at a fancy party hosted by a successful hedge fund manager. Google reveals various versions and sources of the exchange. Here's mine: Vonnegut: Can you believe this guy? He makes more money in a single day than we'll make in our entire lives. And you wrote Catch-22! Hell…

Conversely, there's a humble brag my grandfather loved to tell:

"I'm working on my second million!"

(pause for people to act impressed, while secretly loathing you)

"I gave up on my first."

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#106

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

I've yet to meet someone I would trade places with. If they're smarter than me, maybe they make less money. If they're richer than me, and smarter, maybe I don't care for their spouse. Or they're in bad physical shape, or they're neurotic and difficult to be around. If all else fails, you can consider how many people have it worse than you, and how, even if you had it worse, it would still be ok.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial-arts monastery in China and studied real hard for ten years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, and devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad.

Hiro used to feel this way, too, but then he ran into Raven. In a way, this was liberating. He no longer has to worry about being the baddest motherfucker in the world. The position is taken. ... Which is okay. Sometimes it's all right just to be a little bad. To know your limitations. Make do with what you've got.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#108

Post by c22 »

CalRobert wrote: post #81

At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. As a result of this decision I make a lot less money than many of my peers, but I'm always working on projects I'm excited about and I have more free time than most of the people I know. If anything, like you, I feel sorry for the people I see working all the time, always stressed, alienated from their families, and often using unhealthy habits to cope. You can buy a lot of stuff with money, but you can't take it with you when you die. I prefer to optimize for moments of contentment.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#109

Post by Nasrudith »

I haven't had that issue much but one thing to try to do instead is try to observe them learn from them and their failues and successes. Even if you could never directly match them you could assuge yourself by continuing to learn, grow, and avoid their pitfalls.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#110

Post by elliekelly »

Buttons840 wrote: post #75
DrDimension wrote: post #68

If you want something that someone else has got, ask them for it. More often than not, they will give it to you. If you find someone who is outpacing you, humble yourself for a damn minute and try asking them what they are doing that makes them so effective, then see if you can make it work for you. If more engineers had this mindset, we'd all be better off.

Good point. I've more often been frustrated because I feel I'm the smartest in the room. I acknowledge this may be because of my own pride, but either way it sucks.

> I've more often been frustrated because I feel I'm the smartest in the room.

Perhaps it's time to change your perspective. No one is ever the smartest in the room. There's always something that can be learned from someone else.

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