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Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

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Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#31

Post by mjburgess »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #24

>>> Almost all of the litter that escapes into nature, especially the sea, comes from poorer riverine countries with bad rubbish collection practices, such as China, India, Indonesia, and Vietnam. Rich countries like the UK or US have rubbish collection rates approaching 100% and are responsible for almost no new waste reaching the oceans. ... Yea, b/c the developed nations of the world don't send their trash to "poo…

It's not clear that this article makes a relevant point.

The existence of trash isn't under dispute in the article, only a very specific route for trash to reach the ocean. It's not clear that somehow exporting trash, alone, implicates western countries in its reaching the ocean.

Is it mismanaged trash collecting companies in developing countries that dump in the ocean? Is that the route? Or is it dumping in rivers, as the article suggests.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#32

Post by pintxo »

scythe wrote: post #12

>Properly run landfill doesn’t hurt the environment in itself. >[...] But a well run landfill site has [...] electricity generation from gases produced by decaying matter, This sounds like a pipe dream. We don't even have reliable estimates on how much landfill outgas there is, much less a good system for burning it. It's believed to be largely methane, which would be valuable without further processing if it could b…

A handful of European countries has actually banned putting household waste in landfills. If its not recycled it gets incinerated.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#33

Post by redder2 »

Some interesting arguments.

I think the argument that he has better things to do then think of taking a bag "everythere". You do not need a bag small in hand purchases and when you really go shopping you should and can easily bring a bag when you go shopping.

When it comes to regulations I would trust the US with nothing. The EU has probably way better regulations for landfills like for food and other things. While at the same time probably do a way better job at actual recycling.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#34

Post by wbraun »

Liron wrote: post #30

We really shot ourselves in the foot with this whole pointless "recycling paper and plastic" thing huh? The convenience of throwing something away is a triumph of modern civilization and one of life's little pleasures, and we had to ruin it by acting like it's wrong when it's actually not. When I walk up to some wastebins holding a papery-plasticky object with a bit of food stuck to it, my heart sinks. Now I have to…

I fully share this cynicism about recycling things that are not aluminum or glass. It also seems that by making people feel better about generating nominally recyclable waste they are encouraged to consume more.

I am at least familiar with arguments against US-style airport security and donating cans of food, but whats wrong with hybrid cars? I don't know of any arguments that they are net neutral / harmful.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#35

Post by JTbane »

My take:

Landfills should be utilized much less for municipal waste, but doing this would require much better waste separation.

It's probably better to burn or recycle things that don't decompose readily, such as plastic. Landfilling plastics just takes up a lot of space for a long time. Recycling or burning plastic also reduces litter.

Recycling paper doesn't matter as much, since it is very biodegradable. I suspect that recycling paper leads to energy savings in the pulp & paper industry.

Aluminum is one of the best candidates for recycling as it is very efficient and cuts down on the need for aluminum ore. Steel is somewhat less efficient.

Organics should always be composted if possible.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#36

Post by tomatocracy »

pizza234 wrote: post #15

> Properly run landfill doesn’t hurt the environment in itself. ... and properly written software has no security vulnerabilities.

Part of the problem with landfill is that the economics are largely 'profit first, cost later'. We don't really have a good model to ensure that long term maintenance and care of a landfill site post closure is always adequately funded so there's always a risk that an owner who might well have made all his capital investment back, and more, before the landfill closed just runs out of money and walks away no matter how you provide privately. This is a bit like the issue you have with defined benefit pensions and longevity, only you have less certainty on the costs.

Because the potential environmental consequences of just leaving the site unmaintained or poorly looked after are high, in the developed world government almost always ends up providing a backstop to this. This could be described as 'socialised losses and privatised profits' when it gets used, and we would be right to be very wary of this model, even to pay a premium to avoid it.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#37

Post by t34543 »

wbraun wrote: post #34
Liron wrote: post #30

We really shot ourselves in the foot with this whole pointless "recycling paper and plastic" thing huh? The convenience of throwing something away is a triumph of modern civilization and one of life's little pleasures, and we had to ruin it by acting like it's wrong when it's actually not. When I walk up to some wastebins holding a papery-plasticky object with a bit of food stuck to it, my heart sinks. Now I have to…

I fully share this cynicism about recycling things that are not aluminum or glass. It also seems that by making people feel better about generating nominally recyclable waste they are encouraged to consume more. I am at least familiar with arguments against US-style airport security and donating cans of food, but whats wrong with hybrid cars? I don't know of any arguments that they are net neutral / harmful.

Lithium battery production is extremely harmful to the environment.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#38

Post by kja1123 »

mikeash wrote: post #23
kja1123 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reduce waste, you'd have to make things more repairable -> But the labor costs in developed economies discourages that If you make things more repairable -> net consumption might go down -> this might lead to loss of jobs. Does my analysis make any sense?

Seems to me that your two points oppose each other. If the cost of repair is too high because of labor costs, that indicates that it would create jobs, not destroy them.

Yeah I wasn't sure about that myself. Just thinking out aloud.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#40

Post by Skunkleton »

wbraun wrote: post #34
Liron wrote: post #30

We really shot ourselves in the foot with this whole pointless "recycling paper and plastic" thing huh? The convenience of throwing something away is a triumph of modern civilization and one of life's little pleasures, and we had to ruin it by acting like it's wrong when it's actually not. When I walk up to some wastebins holding a papery-plasticky object with a bit of food stuck to it, my heart sinks. Now I have to…

I fully share this cynicism about recycling things that are not aluminum or glass. It also seems that by making people feel better about generating nominally recyclable waste they are encouraged to consume more. I am at least familiar with arguments against US-style airport security and donating cans of food, but whats wrong with hybrid cars? I don't know of any arguments that they are net neutral / harmful.

I think the idea was that hybrid cars are a sort of local maxima that has stalled real progress (alternative energy cars).
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