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The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

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Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#91

Post by DoreenMichele »

frankbreetz wrote: post #89

I struggle with this. On one hand I want my children to be who they want and not be burnt out when they are 20,on the other hand too many children are never challenged and give up too easy. I went to a college prep high school and graduated in the middle of the pack, but it was quite challenging and I didn't enjoy it. But, in college there were quite a few valedictorians who clearly just coasted through high school,…

I homeschooled. My oldest was accepted to college at age 13, but didn't attend (long story omitted). I was briefly Director of Community Life for The TAG project, a gifted support organization I was involved in to support my homeschooling efforts.

Chores serve the same function as homework in terms of teaching kids responsibility. They have the added benefit of being a real world task, not "make work."

When my kids couldn't focus on their schoolwork because of video games, I locked up the controllers until school work was done. It wasn't punishment. They got them back as soon as their work was done.

When I got tired of one son blowing off household chores because he wanted to see his TV show, so he would ask if it could wait for a commercial, but then he never remembered during the commercial, I began telling him "No, this needs to be done when I ask because I'm spending hours begging you to do it and it's an unreasonable burden on me." After a few times of having his TV shows interrupted, he began taking out the trash voluntarily before his shows started and asking if there were any other chores he needed to do so he could block out uninterrupted TV viewing time.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#92

Post by tomp »

abootstrapper wrote: post #39

I was called “smart” growing up. Looking back I believe it was a huge disservice. School was generally easy for me, but I was afraid to ask questions to risk appearing “not smart.” I learned a hard lesson in college. Smart isn’t something you are, it’s something you can become, through perseverance, dedication, and grit. Luckily I posses those qualities. We don’t use the S word around our kids. And when strangers tel…

You're generalizing from 1 example. I don't remember being called smart, but I definitely was smart (comparatively, always in the top of achievement except sports through my schooling including Oxford university). I wasn't afraid to ask questions and was happy to risk looking like a fool in order to ask a question about a complex topic (which, given it was complex for me, it was also likely complex for other people).

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#93

Post by DoreenMichele »

tomp wrote: post #92
abootstrapper wrote: post #39

I was called “smart” growing up. Looking back I believe it was a huge disservice. School was generally easy for me, but I was afraid to ask questions to risk appearing “not smart.” I learned a hard lesson in college. Smart isn’t something you are, it’s something you can become, through perseverance, dedication, and grit. Luckily I posses those qualities. We don’t use the S word around our kids. And when strangers tel…

You're generalizing from 1 example. I don't remember being called smart, but I definitely was smart (comparatively, always in the top of achievement except sports through my schooling including Oxford university). I wasn't afraid to ask questions and was happy to risk looking like a fool in order to ask a question about a complex topic (which, given it was complex for me , it was also likely complex for other people)…

If you weren't called smart, your anecdote fails to actually contradict theirs. Theirs is also supported by the research, which says generally that it's harmful to children to praise them for being smart. It's better to praise them for effort and results.

https://bingschool.stanford.edu/news/carol-dweck-praising-in...

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#94

Post by em-bee »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #19
nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

you overestimate what it takes to be one of the best programmers. they are not geniuses. they just work harder. that makes a big difference. what you did does set you apart, and if you keep it up, it is exactly what will make you a great programmer. it makes you the kind of person i want to hire.

and from different perspective, the feeling that this came easy to you is exactly what would make you gifted. you are not impressed by your own achievements, but they are achievements. this is what gifted means. what's hard for someone else is easy for you.

that doesn't make it a good idea to call people gifted, because that has a tendency to make them lazy. it seems you saw through that though.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#95

Post by em-bee »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #21
XMPPwocky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

As an afterthought, the one thing I do actually find to help with my self-esteem is finding security bugs in places I know others have already looked. There, it's objective- you did something nobody else could. That... that's believable. But essentially any praise from humans is not.

or just to be able to keep going until i find that bug where others have given up.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#96

Post by rowanG077 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #80
fromthestart wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>unpaid labor in the form of raising children and running the household What a backwards society we increasingly live in, where putting time and effort into one of the most rewarding aspects of life, tending to the success and well-being of your offspring, is dismissed as "unpaid labor." >Women are constantly put in a double bind when it comes to trying to claim their competence, establish a public life, etc. Maybe t…

I was full-time wife and mom supporting my husband's demanding military career for two decades. Post divorce, I've struggled to make ends meet the entire time, in spite of having six years of college and still receiving alimony to this day, more than a decade later. This includes a stint of nearly six years of homelessness. I also have a serious medical condition, so you can't blame it entirely on my gender. But I'm…

don't take this the wrong way. I believe a man would also face significant hurdles to try and get hired after not being in the field for two decades. Honestly on paper such a person has less to offer then a cheaper, younger person who is fresh out of college. I mean If you don't do something for two decades you have forgotten most of it.

To attribute your predicament to you being a women seems shortsighted to me. But this is only from the information I gained from reading your post and I don't actually know what experiences you went through.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#97

Post by [deleted] »

rowanG077 wrote: post #96
DoreenMichele wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was full-time wife and mom supporting my husband's demanding military career for two decades. Post divorce, I've struggled to make ends meet the entire time, in spite of having six years of college and still receiving alimony to this day, more than a decade later. This includes a stint of nearly six years of homelessness. I also have a serious medical condition, so you can't blame it entirely on my gender. But I'm…

don't take this the wrong way. I believe a man would also face significant hurdles to try and get hired after not being in the field for two decades. Honestly on paper such a person has less to offer then a cheaper, younger person who is fresh out of college. I mean If you don't do something for two decades you have forgotten most of it. To attribute your predicament to you being a women seems shortsighted to me. But…

[deleted]

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#98

Post by em-bee »

detaro wrote: post #88
redis_mlc wrote: post #87

For those readers who don't have kids ... It's very important to not say three things to kids: - "You're my favorite" - this is incredibly corrosive to relationships between siblings, and lasts forever. - "You're so smart"- when you say this, you're telling the child that they have an intrinsic gift that replaces having to work hard. Just say, "Good job." or "How can you improve it next time?" - "You's so pretty." -…

Acknowledging someone has an intrinsic gift is not the same as telling them it's a replacement for work. (By all means, make sure they know it's not!) It's also fairly silly to assume if you don't tell your kid it won't notice it has these gifts, rather it will notice that you never acknowledge this.

but they don't have an intrinsic gift. every child is capable of being smart, and every child is beautiful.

using these labels has to be done with care foe the desired effect. if a child thinks they are dumb, then calling them smart, and showing them hat makes them smart may be helpful to raise their self-esteem. but otherwise it may backfire.

same goes for beauty. it can have a positive effect, but it can also make the child care more about outward appearances.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#99

Post by em-bee »

astazangasta wrote: post #57
fromthestart wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>unpaid labor in the form of raising children and running the household What a backwards society we increasingly live in, where putting time and effort into one of the most rewarding aspects of life, tending to the success and well-being of your offspring, is dismissed as "unpaid labor." >Women are constantly put in a double bind when it comes to trying to claim their competence, establish a public life, etc. Maybe t…

I'm guessing you are not a parent. I have a toddler and a one month old. It is rewarding in many ways, but it is also crushingly boring, repetitive work. It's also overwhelmingly placed on women; men simply don't do as much child care by a factor of probably ten. I'm pretty sure no woman is trying to have her cake here, and every single one would choose to have help so they could do anything else on occasion.

before we had children my dream was to work part time so i could spend a lot of time with my children. when we had children, i got that opportunity, because my wife got a good paying job and i was a struggling freelancer.

and i hated it. it was boring, unfulfilling, and i didn't feel that i got enough time to work (which was where i'd seek that fulfillment)

when working, my wife often talks about how she'd like to stay home to take care of the kids, but since i work from home i know that she also feels unfulfilled if she is not at work.

we are fortunate that we live in a country where having a nanny is common and socially acceptable (means, it's not considered a rich peoples privilege), (most often it's a relative like the kids grandparents).

i eventually developed a theory that men are really privileged to live in a society where it is acceptable for them to leave this work to their partner.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#100

Post by usbseeker »

nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

Has your experience led you to develop any innovations?
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