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VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

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Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#101

Post by Marsymars »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #93
Marsymars wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy goods/services based on the future expected utility and effects of my purchase. If VW has a vehicle that's otherwise the best option for me to purchase, I'm not clear that there's any benefit to me, based on their past actions, opting to go with the next best alternative instead.

Boycotts come at the cost of the participants but to the benefit of the greater good. You’re being asked not to cross the picket line. If you don’t believe VWs transgressions were enough to warrant a boycott, that’s a fair point to make. I’m not in the car market so I don’t even have an opinion on it, myself. But to the parent’s credit: they never meant to talk about you benefitting personally. It’s about teaching ca…

I'm not saying I won't participate in a boycott, I'm saying it's not clear that a boycott of VW benefits the greater good, because a) It's not clear that current or future VW is behaving or will behave any worse than other car manufacturers. and b) There's pretty free movement in decision-makers between various car manufacturers.

I don't anthropomorphize companies; they aren't people. They can be economically incentivized or legislatively regulated, but they can't learn.

> Put another way: how bad does VW have to mess up before you consider more than your personal benefit?

There'd have to be some indication that me buying a VW would be contributing to future mess ups.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#102

Post by dmix »

clouddrover wrote: post #76
RaceWon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a self driving car Cue up the [0] Porsche 919 vid to show what a human can do in a car... [0] https://youtu.be/KsLi7HgSuhI

And the next best, the fully electric Volkswagen ID.R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCiGABQupA

That videos mesmerizing. It’s like perfection in driving. I can imagine the future when we’re traversing highways at 200km/hr that speed once cars are all networked.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#103

Post by trilila »

bagacrap wrote: post #72
cj wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the VW brand is too far below hacker news standards, what car brand isn’t? (Excluding Tesla, and other brands priced 40k+)

I can't think of a reason folks here would hate on Toyota, Honda, etc: companies that build practical, efficient, cheap cars, have well regarded engineering, and have met with incredible economic success. False equivalency to say all car brands are like VW, which lied and cheated about emissions whilst marketing their product as Clean Diesel , and left their own customers and everyone else on planet Earth holding the…

My thoughts exactly.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#104

Post by trilila »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #95
nothrabannosir wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boycotts come at the cost of the participants but to the benefit of the greater good. You’re being asked not to cross the picket line. If you don’t believe VWs transgressions were enough to warrant a boycott, that’s a fair point to make. I’m not in the car market so I don’t even have an opinion on it, myself. But to the parent’s credit: they never meant to talk about you benefitting personally. It’s about teaching ca…

Toyota had an Unintended Acceleration problem that actually put peoples' lives at stake, and they denied everything / covered it up [1]. I don't recall people boycotting Toyota. [1] Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#105

Post by Fins »

lazyjones wrote: post #61
navigatesol wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most normal drivers on a cross country trip need bathroom breaks, lunch/snacks/drinks, leg stretching etc. every 2-3 hours. Great opportunity to plug in and recharge enough for another 2-3 hours. Everytime I hear this I wonder if the people saying it have ever taken a road trip. Stopping every 2-3 hours for a half hour on a long road trip seems downright crazy to me. This is beside the point that during the…

> Stopping every 2-3 hours for a half hour on a long road trip seems downright crazy to me. It seems crazy to you because you haven't done it. It seems perfectly normal and acceptable to people who drive Teslas over long distances. I see people going for lunch, shopping, sightseeing at Superchargers. If you know you'll have to wait 20+ minutes, you just find something to do instead of biting your fingernails.

SO basically, if you adjust your behavior to match the car, it will, eventually, get you where you're going. And if you really want to enjoy lunch and sightseeing at such beautiful places as the Supercharger station in Kettleman City. Not everyone is willing to make these tradeoffs, especially for a car that costs twice as much as a comparable ICE one.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#106

Post by MegaButts »

ghaff wrote: post #74
solarkraft wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it mean that it safely pulls over Yes (or just stop - the idea is that it will not crash). > general intelligence Your examples would most likely be situations that would be trained for. I doubt that any system in the next few (5-50) years will be able to adopt to a completely new situation as well as a human.

Yes, but there is still vagueness. Depending upon where you are and the circumstances, there may be no "safely pull over." I've certainly gotten into very low visibility situations on highways (snow squall, very heavy rain) where put on hazards and crawl along as best you can and pull over to the side of the road are pretty much equally bad alternatives.

I don't think this is a problem with the classification, I think this is a problem with how hard it is to build a self-driving car even if you give it these limitations. You're just making a point for how hard a Level 4 system is to build, not how hard it is to define.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#107

Post by MegaButts »

trilila wrote: post #104
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota had an Unintended Acceleration problem that actually put peoples' lives at stake, and they denied everything / covered it up [1]. I don't recall people boycotting Toyota. [1] Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.

My understanding is just about every car maker does this, and VW is just the company to fall on the sword. Hopefully in a few years there will be more data and journalism on this to substantiate or refute these rumors.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#108

Post by Hydraulix989 »

trilila wrote: post #104
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota had an Unintended Acceleration problem that actually put peoples' lives at stake, and they denied everything / covered it up [1]. I don't recall people boycotting Toyota. [1] Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.

Do you think it was right for Toyota to stonewall and cover it up after it was discovered?

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#109

Post by Hydraulix989 »

MegaButts wrote: post #107
trilila wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.

My understanding is just about every car maker does this, and VW is just the company to fall on the sword. Hopefully in a few years there will be more data and journalism on this to substantiate or refute these rumors.

Indeed, I cite a source corroborating this in my cousin post.

Every car manufacturer that is building ICE vehicles is damaging the environment. Even though VW fudged some numbers in their report like everybody else did, the fact that there are even cars on the road to begin with is by far the main contributor to global warming, much more than any incremental damage (if any) caused by people who could have been mislead into buying a "clean diesel" vehicle based on sheer (mis-)reporting.

If there was a TDI next to an F-250 on the road, and I asked someone to point to the biggest offender, everyone would point at the F-250. It's really unfortunate to see VW become the scapegoat here in the US (but unfortunately also quite predictable since they are a "foreign" car manufacturer).

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#110

Post by jillesvangurp »

nl wrote: post #58
jillesvangurp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the more expensive EVs come pretty close to that and seem to be competing on getting the numbers better there. E.g. I think Tesla is planning to break the 400 mile barrier pretty soon. 300 mile is pretty normal already. Most EVs charge pretty quickly to about 80%. 20 minutes to half an hour gets you plenty of range. Mostly EV owners don't charge to 100% unless they are at home or doing some overnight stop. I…

I think most normal drivers on a cross country trip need bathroom breaks, lunch/snacks/drinks, leg stretching etc. every 2-3 hours. Great opportunity to plug in and recharge enough for another 2-3 hours. Range anxiety is mostly irrational and mostly a non technical problem as your car probably has more endurance than you. I agree with the rest of your post, but this is completely untrue. No one trying to do serious d…

Well the inconvenience of having to stop for an extra 30-40 minutes over a journey that basically is going to eat your whole day in any case might be considered a show stopper for some hard core road warriors. But, for normal people, that sounds like an entirely reasonable tradeoff. Especially when you consider that the fuel cost you'll be saving easily pays for a nice motel + dinner. But yes, if you are traveling beyond the range of your EV, you will at some point have to plan a longer break.
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