Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 110 posts

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#21

Post by XMPPwocky »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #19
nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

As an afterthought, the one thing I do actually find to help with my self-esteem is finding security bugs in places I know others have already looked. There, it's objective- you did something nobody else could. That... that's believable.

But essentially any praise from humans is not.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#22

Post by xiphias2 »

smt88 wrote: post #11
xiphias2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's a single mom who has a son. It doesn't seem to me that she has an understanding of how much more picky females are than males when it comes to sexual selection. Her son needs to compete hard in his life, whether she likes it or not.

Whatever biological concept you're thinking of here, you're incorrect to generalize it to humans. Our complex brains, societies, and medicine (like birth control) significantly change our mate selection. We are not antelopes.

I don't really know about antelopes, but the human side is well documented on multiple fronts. Women have to be much more selective than men, just because they are biologically aren't capable of having as many babies as men.

Also you can just try a dating site using an average looking man and average looking woman and get similar results to this experiment:

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#23

Post by emsy »

smt88 wrote: post #11
xiphias2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's a single mom who has a son. It doesn't seem to me that she has an understanding of how much more picky females are than males when it comes to sexual selection. Her son needs to compete hard in his life, whether she likes it or not.

Whatever biological concept you're thinking of here, you're incorrect to generalize it to humans. Our complex brains, societies, and medicine (like birth control) significantly change our mate selection. We are not antelopes.

Societal factors do exist, but are often overstated or don’t bear a scientific foundation. A lot of social sciences have done real harm to scientific progress and the field of evolutionary psychology.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#24

Post by pizza »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #19
nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

It's nice to hear I'm not the only one as a kid whose reflex was to get suspicious of/thought it was lazy when/ people would quickly decide "you're smart". It seemed to me just like a way to score cheap points. It also made me feel worse about not understanding things easily.. people were telling me I was smart, after all! :P

My sister, on the other hand, gets annoyed at my perspective - she finds it tiresome when people can't take the compliment. There's wisdom to both ways, I guess.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#25

Post by cambalache »

smt88 wrote: post #11
xiphias2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's a single mom who has a son. It doesn't seem to me that she has an understanding of how much more picky females are than males when it comes to sexual selection. Her son needs to compete hard in his life, whether she likes it or not.

Whatever biological concept you're thinking of here, you're incorrect to generalize it to humans. Our complex brains, societies, and medicine (like birth control) significantly change our mate selection. We are not antelopes.

And yet study after study, not only in humans but in many animals describe the female sex to be the choosy one and the males to heavily compete (even in mortal combat) for a chance for sex.

And yeah we are not antelopes, we are big apes.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#26

Post by DoreenMichele »

bitreality wrote: post #5
torstenvl wrote: post #2

It's hard to identify the thesis here. Is the thesis that intelligence is a myth? If so, the post provides precious little evidence in support. Is it that smart children are overburdened by expectations and anxiety? If so, the "evidence" is a set of personal anecdotes and hyperbolic generalizations. It is, quite simply, not factual that teenagers are made to study 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. If that occurred,…

It reads like a 1000 word humblebrag.

I skimmed it. It's not a particularly compelling piece, but research supports the idea that praising kids for "being smart" is inherently problematic.

Furthermore, she's a woman in a man's world. Women tend to spend a great deal of their time performing unpaid labor in the form of raising children and running the household -- aka "women's work." This creates myriad problems in them trying to establish a public reputation.

I was a military wife and homeschooling mom for a lot of years. I've really struggled to create some kind of public reputation that will lead to adequate financial compensation, so it's a problem space I know a lot about. Women are constantly put in a double bind when it comes to trying to claim their competence, establish a public life, etc.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#27

Post by shripadk »

Reminds me of what I wrote sometime back here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20131518

I can understand what she means when she talks about expectations. This is too common in China and India. It is difficult to explain to those who have never gone through what she is describing. Luckily I have parents who do not pressure me to do the stuff she talks about. But I have seen my fair share to know what it is like.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#28

Post by sombremesa »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #19
nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

Ironically enough, it could be the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#29

Post by striking »

pizza wrote: post #24
XMPPwocky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybo…

It's nice to hear I'm not the only one as a kid whose reflex was to get suspicious of/thought it was lazy when/ people would quickly decide "you're smart". It seemed to me just like a way to score cheap points. It also made me feel worse about not understanding things easily.. people were telling me I was smart, after all! :P My sister, on the other hand, gets annoyed at my perspective - she finds it tiresome when pe…

You can be nice about a well-meaning but ultimately misguided complement without taking it seriously.

Re: The Intelligence Myth – Why I cringe when someone tells me my child is smart

#30

Post by shripadk »

nicolethenerd wrote: post #4

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyear…

The difference is subtle. The difference is that you were called "smart" in the areas you showed interest in. That propelled you to improve further and always be ahead of your contemporaries. In her case (and many in China and India - where I come from) society has certain expectations from you. It doesn't matter if you are interested in something else entirely. Maybe you have a liking for arts. Or for music. These are considered "secondary". There are certain core subjects that you have to compulsorily master else you won't have any "value" in society. Now when you get labelled "smart" for something you have no interest in but you have to do because you have no choice that label doesn't really give you any satisfaction. It just so happens that you did it because the society wants you to. Not because you want to. And then you have to live up to the label now that everyone knows you are "smart". It is a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of.

That doesn't mean the society discourages you from learning arts, music or anything else. You have to make room for it in your spare time.

Also, examinations to get into prestigious universities are brutal compared to the West. Around a million students (10.43 lakhs in 2018) take up the IIT JEE exam and only around 10,000 qualify. You can take a look at how tough the exam is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_x13xHjVs

To prepare for this, you would have to spend countless hours solving and sleepless nights studying. And even after all that, your chance at success is 1%. I am not even considering Medical (NEET), MBA (CAT) or Civil Services (UPSC) which is equally hard.

EDIT: Corrected 0.01% to 1%.

Post reply on HN