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VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

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Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#81
post #80
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the entire world now wanted Teslas and nothing but Teslas, the manufacturing ability is just not there. Inevitably the vast majority of the market would go to other companies. That was always the relation between Tesla and established car companies: Tesla has better EV technology, but others had the better manufacturing ability by far. In theory, this should favour the established companies - Tesla doesn't pa…

I realize that is the prevailing opinion. I think it's wrong. No incumbent out there has has yet made an electric vehicle that can even match Tesla's 2012 model S on range and performance. The electric cars they have come out with are money losers for them. Fiat's CEO famously told people he hoped no one bought the Fiat 500 Electric because the company loses $14,000 on every sale.

Other companies are behind on EV proper (aside). Commercially, it doesn't matter all that much.

Tesla can't sell nonexistent cars, and it can't increase capacity to the point of even getting near to taking over the market. The existing companies have more than enough time to fill in demand with their existing EVs - which will 'win' even if only because these models have cars which can be sold, though I wouldn't bet against the other companies having a compelling offer too. With scale profitability will come.

Of course, the existing companies could sleep and lose their chance, but this doesn't seem likely.

(aside) Note that comparison should also include price, and on that scale other EVs are already better. There should be room at the bottom of the market as well.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#82
post #67

Given that VW was caught cheating emissions on a global scale, and far worse than other carmakers, i find it surprising that anyone on hackernews would consider buying their cars.

I buy goods/services based on the future expected utility and effects of my purchase. If VW has a vehicle that's otherwise the best option for me to purchase, I'm not clear that there's any benefit to me, based on their past actions, opting to go with the next best alternative instead.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a self driving car Cue up the [0] Porsche 919 vid to show what a human can do in a car... [0] https://youtu.be/KsLi7HgSuhI

And the next best, the fully electric Volkswagen ID.R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCiGABQupA

Stanford team: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/31/18285824/self-driving-car...

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how many Data Scientists you know but I've worked with hundreds over the years and have never met a single one who was irrationally optimistic about the work they do. In fact generally it is the opposite. But you know the sort of people who are wildly optimistic and prone to over-exaggeration. Executives like Musk.

Seems like those types are the ones fetishized here in the Valley (and end up getting showered with cash accordingly).

Musk succeeds.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#85
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a self driving car Cue up the [0] Porsche 919 vid to show what a human can do in a car... [0] https://youtu.be/KsLi7HgSuhI

And the next best, the fully electric Volkswagen ID.R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCiGABQupA

The performance is impressive no doubt but that high pitched noise is really unsettling.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#86

If this trend continues, I really expect there to be a massive bidding war for Tesla before too long. When bears/shorts on tesla Complain about Tesla’s market cap, they seem to always forget the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This merger and investment brings Argo’s valuation up to you around $8 billion.

> the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection.

This is far from being obvious given that the competition is collecting data with much more advanced sensors.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#87

If this trend continues, I really expect there to be a massive bidding war for Tesla before too long. When bears/shorts on tesla Complain about Tesla’s market cap, they seem to always forget the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This merger and investment brings Argo’s valuation up to you around $8 billion.

Tesla is ahead in many regards but they are too debt laden for a buyout at this point. A larger player would be smart to wait until the economy turns and Tesla can no longer meet debt obligations, then buy them out of bankruptcy.

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#89

Where is the anti trust investigation into these two ICE competitors teaming up to compete against Tesla?

What aspect of two competitors cooperating to compete against a third in a market where there are no clear winners yet, merits an antitrust investigation?

Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance

#90

If this trend continues, I really expect there to be a massive bidding war for Tesla before too long. When bears/shorts on tesla Complain about Tesla’s market cap, they seem to always forget the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This merger and investment brings Argo’s valuation up to you around $8 billion.

> the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This is far from being obvious given that the competition is collecting data with much more advanced sensors.

They do?
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