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Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

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Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#91

Post by dageshi »

KUcxrAVrtI wrote: post #72
Nas808 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smoked for 15 years and tried all the usual quitting aids many times. E-cigs were the only thing that worked for me, but I’m a bit concerned about the long term affects of vaping.

Have you stopped smoking really? To me is sounds like someone saying "I don't smoke any more, I just use cigars instead".

There is a fairly big practical difference between cigars and cigarettes. Cigars (like pipes) aren't traditionally inhaled into the lungs, so if you have genuinely gone from cigarettes to cigars and you aren't inhaling you're probably a lot better off.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#92

Post by acjacobson »

anonytrary wrote: post #71

I've sat in on a few court cases, and also in a jury for a murder trial. It is honestly very scary to me how a judge, a single person, can decide something that affects so many people. To me this seems like a flaw in the US's democratic consensus algorithm. It is literally no different than if Bitcoin's algorithm allowed a single node to decide what to do with 100k BTC flowing across the network. That much decision-m…

Well, the theory says that the judge can only apply the current law as is written. And as written his interpretation is that the FDA has regulatory jurisdiction (and therefore obligation) over E-Cigarettes. But the judge doesn't create the law. If Congress wants to change the law they can. There is nothing legally that prevents Congress from passing a law that specifically exempts E-Cigarettes from FDA approval. I am not saying that politically this is feasible - the point is only that one judge is not the only party capable of making a decision.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#93

Post by InvaderFizz »

rjeli wrote: post #65
Nas808 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smoked for 15 years and tried all the usual quitting aids many times. E-cigs were the only thing that worked for me, but I’m a bit concerned about the long term affects of vaping.

Have you tried tapering the nicotine levels from vaping? Asking for myself..

I did.

I went from pack-a-day Newports to Vaping at 36mg/ml. Within a week I was down to 18mg/ml. Within a year I tapered all the way down to under 3mg/ml (I mixed all my own juices).

I stayed right around 3mg/ml for about a year, then I moved jobs and could no longer vape in my office. It seemed quite pointless to go outside and vape since I didnt really have the urge, I was still vaping in the evening after work for another 2-3 months. I finally reached the point where the trouble was more than it was worth, and just stopped entirely.

So yes, I'm a big fan of vaping. Is it "safe?" Probably not. Is it less harmful than cigarettes? I dont think that is even in question, at all. Vaping is, at worst, a significant harm reduction for smokers and those around them. At best, it is a method of quitting cigarettes and have proven successful for MANY former smokers.

I really hate the direction things are going with regulation, because to me it looks a lot like PM and friends are using regulatory capture to ban everything but menthol vapes that they can afford to get tested, thus perpetuating their existence and granting them a lock on the market.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#94

Post by FDSGSG »

on_and_off wrote: post #86
d1zzy wrote: post #3

I hope this doesn't result in e-cigs getting banned in the US because that would be terrible. I live in the same house with someone who has been smoking since they were a teenager (quite common where we're from) and e-cigs has allowed them to stop smoking cigarettes which may or may not benefit them that much but it most certainly benefits me (no smell of smoke in the house, no second hand smoking, etc). They have tr…

My main issue with e-cigs is that they are heavily marketed to kids, for example with young sponsored influencers doing smoke tricks and other shit. Thanks to e-cigs, teen cigarette (not e-cig) smoking has started increasing after decreasing for years. Teens that would have never started smoking are introduced to it with e-cigs. I don't know how these 2 phenomenons balance out. Does the number of cigarette smokers mo…

> the number of younger people starting to smoke cigarettes because of it ?

Just ban cigarettes if that is the problem.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#95

Post by deaddrop »

acjacobson wrote: post #92
anonytrary wrote: post #71

I've sat in on a few court cases, and also in a jury for a murder trial. It is honestly very scary to me how a judge, a single person, can decide something that affects so many people. To me this seems like a flaw in the US's democratic consensus algorithm. It is literally no different than if Bitcoin's algorithm allowed a single node to decide what to do with 100k BTC flowing across the network. That much decision-m…

Well, the theory says that the judge can only apply the current law as is written. And as written his interpretation is that the FDA has regulatory jurisdiction (and therefore obligation) over E-Cigarettes. But the judge doesn't create the law. If Congress wants to change the law they can. There is nothing legally that prevents Congress from passing a law that specifically exempts E-Cigarettes from FDA approval. I am…

I think that their critique of the overall judicial system was a tangential aside and didn't - directly - apply to this specific situation.

Admittedly, I could be wrong here but that was my take-away from the OC.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#96

Post by Semaphor »

rjeli wrote: post #65
Nas808 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smoked for 15 years and tried all the usual quitting aids many times. E-cigs were the only thing that worked for me, but I’m a bit concerned about the long term affects of vaping.

Have you tried tapering the nicotine levels from vaping? Asking for myself..

I started with 25mg years ago (hard switch in April 2012 from a pack a day) and nowadays I happily vape at 3mg

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#97

Post by AdamHede »

FDSGSG wrote: post #94
on_and_off wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main issue with e-cigs is that they are heavily marketed to kids, for example with young sponsored influencers doing smoke tricks and other shit. Thanks to e-cigs, teen cigarette (not e-cig) smoking has started increasing after decreasing for years. Teens that would have never started smoking are introduced to it with e-cigs. I don't know how these 2 phenomenons balance out. Does the number of cigarette smokers mo…

> the number of younger people starting to smoke cigarettes because of it ? Just ban cigarettes if that is the problem.

Kids really shouldn't be smoking e-cigs either. E-cigs are only better than cigarettes because "cigarettes are so legendarily bad for you".

I can accept them as cessation devices, but all their value in this realm should be weighted against the new users they introduce, chief among them: Kids.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#98

Post by lotsofpulp »

AdamHede wrote: post #97
FDSGSG wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the number of younger people starting to smoke cigarettes because of it ? Just ban cigarettes if that is the problem.

Kids really shouldn't be smoking e-cigs either. E-cigs are only better than cigarettes because "cigarettes are so legendarily bad for you". I can accept them as cessation devices, but all their value in this realm should be weighted against the new users they introduce, chief among them: Kids.

They shouldn’t be eating chips, breads, candy, soda, and sitting around watching garbage YouTube/Netflix media and superhero shows. Solution isn’t always to ban something. They shouldn’t be marketed to kids, just like sugary snacks in my opinion, but education is better than banning it for all adults. Just slap the same 21 year old restriction as alcohol and move on.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#99

Post by lotsofpulp »

Clubber wrote: post #23
Mirioron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the point of this is to reduce competition from smaller companies?

Expensive regulation usually benefits the organizations that can afford it to the detriment of those that can't. Regulation is certainly a two edge sword in this regard. I'm left to wonder if this is an intended or unintended consequence. A British study recently came out finding eCigarettes 95% less harmful than cigarettes. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95...

Large scale health studies are going to cost a lot of money since they use up a tremendous amount of human time and resources in short supply.

If we want the data, we have to pay for it. One option is to pay for it with tax dollars (which already happens).

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#100

Post by qazpot »

dageshi wrote: post #91
KUcxrAVrtI wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you stopped smoking really? To me is sounds like someone saying "I don't smoke any more, I just use cigars instead".

There is a fairly big practical difference between cigars and cigarettes. Cigars (like pipes) aren't traditionally inhaled into the lungs, so if you have genuinely gone from cigarettes to cigars and you aren't inhaling you're probably a lot better off.

It is a misconception that cigars are better than cigarettes. One cigar contains as much tobacco as 15-20 cigarettes and although you are not using lungs to breakdown and absorb smoke, you are using your mouth lining which can lead to all sorts of mouth cancers.
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