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Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

sciencemag.org

81–90 of 432 posts

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#81
Meanwhile in Iowa, Mid American Energy is well on their way to 100% renewal by 2021 with an endless array of wind farms.

Their final phase of the project started in 2018 with a $922M investment.

Iowa Public Radio toured one of the windmills back in January.

https://www.iowapublicradio.org/post/skyscrapers-fields-wind...

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#82
post #80
post #7

$0.02/Kwh for the solar part is pretty good. A reasonable short-term goal: get 100% of US peak air conditioning load south of 37° N on solar. That's the line from the Virginia/North Carolina border west to central California. Peak solar power output and peak air conditioning load line up pretty well, so that doesn't need storage. Storage is more of an issue for wind, which varies about 4:1 over a day over large areas…

> $0.02/Kwh for the solar part is pretty good. What's terrible is that PG&E charges the end customers $0.28-$0.42/kwh even though it purchases even the most expensive wholesale power below 5c/kwh

Cost of transmission is higher than cost of generation.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#83

So, that's cool and all. I love green tech. And I hate fossil fuels. Buuuuuuut, aren't we going to have the same issue with supplies of lithium that we are having with fossil fuels? Unless we have a dramatic shift in renewable battery tech, we're still painting ourselves into a corner with the giant battery trent.

The cost of lithium is a pretty small portion of the cost of the batteries, and in the worst case scenario we can extract an effectively unlimited amount of lithium from seawater; it would make batteries a little more expensive but by that time costs will presumably have fallen much further.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#84
I’ve always wondered about something, yet have never found anyone discussing it online. So maybe some smart people can help me out:

a lot of people install solar on their rooftops. Much of the time this is done with the assumption that it will pay off financially because energy prices are currently at a certain rate and will continue to rise.

But here’s my question: If its financially advantageous to install solar on your roof, wouldn’t it be greatly more financially advantageous (given the main cost for solar installation is the labor) for energy companies to install solar at scale? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t the energy companies eventually do this, which, given macro market laws of supply and demand, would eventually cause the price of electricity to go dramatically down for their end consumer, thus eliminating the financial benefit of privately installed roof top solar for homeowners?

I live in the southwest, and based on online calculators it “makes sense” from a 10 year outlook to pay the money now and install solar on my home, but that’s only if the energy prices don’t fall. But nobody seems to even think that’s a possibility.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the landlord spend money on insulation to save you money on your electric bill? There's the problem.

The government should enforce energy efficient building standards and tax those who don’t comply.

New building standards don't affect existing buildings. And they're not optional, so the tax isn't an option for non-compliance.

Forcing existing landlords to retrofit to new building standards isn't even done for safety purposes, so it certainly isn't going to happen for energy efficiency.

And calling for this to now be a thing, well, I can't think of a better way to get entrenched interests to suddenly lobby hard against every single new building reg.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#86
post #80
post #7

$0.02/Kwh for the solar part is pretty good. A reasonable short-term goal: get 100% of US peak air conditioning load south of 37° N on solar. That's the line from the Virginia/North Carolina border west to central California. Peak solar power output and peak air conditioning load line up pretty well, so that doesn't need storage. Storage is more of an issue for wind, which varies about 4:1 over a day over large areas…

> $0.02/Kwh for the solar part is pretty good. What's terrible is that PG&E charges the end customers $0.28-$0.42/kwh even though it purchases even the most expensive wholesale power below 5c/kwh

In my area, the energy is generated by another company for 0.02/kwh, but PG&E charges a 'transmission charge' for use of their lines that brings the per-kwh price to their generation price. Okay, you think that that's their right, and transmission does cost money. However, if you decide to use their generation (dirty of course), they conveniently 'waive' the transmission fee.

I spoke with my legislator about this and he told me (and I quote) 'the PG&E lobby is strong' before ignoring me.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#87
post #64
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be also more focus on proper thermal insulation of houses in warm climate, which is something that is not often mentioned. Lots of energy gets lost on AC simply because heat easily enters the houses.

An interesting fact I was told: a typical American apartment uses more electricity on AC than a typical modern apartment in the Persian gulf countries. Besides the near absence of insulation, a lot has to do with design itself. Prevalence of huge windows or glazed curtainwalls, indoor convection, exposed floor slabs, huge balconies, abundance of complex shapes, and no avoidance of West-East orientation.

There's a stat that goes around that says something like "10 billion people can't live at Western standards of living". What it doesn't mention is that the "western" expenditure is massively inflated by Americans being unable to muster the small amount of collective action required for them to benefit from well insulated houses, safe/efficient cars etc.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#88

I wonder what the wider economic effect will be if the price of solar continues to improve and the fossil fuel industry can't find a way to remain competitive. Since some places are far more suitable for solar power generation than others, will those areas end up with a significant advantage in the cost of living? Could that in turn lead to a major migration of people and economic activity to those areas?

Are you a concerned citizen? From the article it seems like it is not that cheap and that the batteries can work for only few hours so they will still need other resources. I wouldn't be so worried, it will just be another tool in the arsenal of energy generation which will all reduce to similiar costs but with different advantages and disadvantages. Fossil will be reliable but dirty, sun will be not reliable but clean, nuclear will be clean but risky etc. There is not going to be such a big change over all just maybe a slightly different make up but with the growing population and need for energy nobody is going to loose anything.

Re: Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

#89

I know someone who has gone fully off the grid via sailboat and is currently on his way around the world. He converted his sailboat to a hybrid setup (electric engines powered by the same batteries that power his stovetop, refrigerator, etc.). His power sources keeping those batteries charged are solar (1200W) and sail regeneration [0]. He has an 18kw diesel generator as a safety measure. His story is particularly in…

And? You think that an average person could do any of these?
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