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Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

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Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#101

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

BurningFrog wrote: post #80
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

> Part of this is culture (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism"... I seriously doubt it. I think all modern rich cultures have this. Sweden certainly does. As everyone gets rich enough to get your own house, you end up lonely, as you're no longer naturally interacting with others, since you don't need to.

Huh. Maybe its paradox of choice then? In our past we were pretty much forced into a community, and this is still largely true of the impoverished, but once you have a certain amount of wealth you're able to choose your community, and so PoC kicks in and paralyzes you.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#102

Post by rayiner »

ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

The public transit angle seems like a red herring to me. My wife and I lived in cities for several years after law school. (New York, Baltimore, Philly, DC.) We didn’t feel alone in school, but felt quite alone after we graduated and had a kid. By contrast, now we live in the ‘burbs near my parents, and we feel far less alone than we have for years. We’ve got neighbors with kids we see regularly. We see other parents at school, church, the park, birthday parties, etc. We see my parents multiple times per week. Sure, we have to drive everywhere, but that’s hardly a deal breaker. (I see people more now that I have to drive to see, than friends I had in DC who lived in the same apartment building.)

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#103

Post by Loughla »

ryanmercer wrote: post #13

I'm 34 and once you add in the weekends I am and talking is extremely discouraged at work, in an open office, so even at work you're basically alone just siting there listening to music or podcasts all day. At Gym1 I talk to my lifting coach but most of the time I'm in my head focused on training, after that at Gym2 I'm just trying to do my accessory work and conditioning and don't talk to anyone other than "hey" bac…

>but all my friends are married with kids and have zero free time.

Then put yourself where they are. As a married friend with kids, I have made it clear to my friends without kids that if you want to hang out, we're headed to the pool or to a park with the kids for the most part. Occasionally we'll have time for adult nights, but because of our geography, childcare is hard to find. Some were okay with that and we're even closer friends now, and my kids call them 'Auntie' or 'Uncle'. Some were not, and we grew apart. Which has to be okay.

The moral of the story is, it's not their fault 100% that they're busy, and if their friendship is important, you should actively work on it. Like an adult. That's not meant to be as preachy as it maybe sounds.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#104

Post by nightski »

BurningFrog wrote: post #80
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

> Part of this is culture (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism"... I seriously doubt it. I think all modern rich cultures have this. Sweden certainly does. As everyone gets rich enough to get your own house, you end up lonely, as you're no longer naturally interacting with others, since you don't need to.

That's strange. Maybe it depends on where? I have rented my entire life and never knew a neighbor. Recently bought a house and immediately not only met all my neighbors but one helped us clean up after a major wind storm came through the day we moved in. There are people & kids walking around our neighborhood constantly. I feel part of a community a lot more than I ever did before.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#105

Post by lotsofpulp »

shoes_for_thee wrote: post #73
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

> (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism" where you alone can solve every problem you're faced with or else it's not a real problem) Nearly any attempt paint American Culture with broad strokes is going to fail.. but using absolute terms like you're doing here A) is wildly inaccurate, and B) negatively portrays a pretty neutral personal ideology. I value individualism for the same reasons I devalue conf…

I don’t think it negatively portrays any ideology. No one is alone in this world, and no one’s actions happen in a vacuum. The consequences can not be contained to those who commit the action, so while you might want to be left alone and free, the world you live in doesn’t allow for it. There are compromises to be had between freedom and lack of freedom for the benefit of the community.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#106

Post by mocha_nate »

BurningFrog wrote: post #82
whateveracct wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most adults I know have a relationship with their immediate family that I would regard as acquaintanceship. America is also _big_, which I think also contributes here. It isn't unusual for family members to move away within America but be far enough that frequent face-to-face interaction isn't possible.

But moving away is a choice to abandon your family.

“abandon” is an interesting word choice. Moving isn’t always about moving away from something, sometimes it’s about moving towards a happy prospect. Your family could respect the action.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#107

Post by technothrasher »

onemoresoop wrote: post #96
technothrasher wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm around people after work I generally feel more positive and have less anxiety, but left alone for too long and my anxiety will start to take over. Interesting. I'm the exact opposite. When I have to do things like hang around with people from work for too long, my anxiety increases until I can get away and be alone. I'm not a social recluse, I have a wife and kid, and I enjoy spending time with them, I try to…

Alone is the happy place because you're not getting enough of it. I think it's a balance between the two. I too need alone time and don't seem to get enough of it. I have a wife, a kid and a 9-5. About 10 years ago I was single, lived alone and at some point spent too much time alone which for a while was great but then I realized I became somewhat savage and the anxiety started to become an issue. Now that I don't g…

Yes, you've got a point about balance. In my younger, unattached days I'd spend quite a lot of time alone, and after about a week of not really being in contact with anybody else I'd start to feel a bit 'disconnected'. Though just an hour or so with somebody else would be enough to reset.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#108

Post by hestipod »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #105
shoes_for_thee wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism" where you alone can solve every problem you're faced with or else it's not a real problem) Nearly any attempt paint American Culture with broad strokes is going to fail.. but using absolute terms like you're doing here A) is wildly inaccurate, and B) negatively portrays a pretty neutral personal ideology. I value individualism for the same reasons I devalue conf…

I don’t think it negatively portrays any ideology. No one is alone in this world, and no one’s actions happen in a vacuum. The consequences can not be contained to those who commit the action, so while you might want to be left alone and free, the world you live in doesn’t allow for it. There are compromises to be had between freedom and lack of freedom for the benefit of the community.

>The consequences can not be contained to those who >commit the action, so while you might want to be left >alone and free, the world you live in doesn’t allow for >it.

Also nobody does it all alone, with the possible exception of some rare frontiersman who chops down trees and builds his own house in some wilderness. People want to be left alone, but still use the benefits of society that suit them. People aren't as independent as they imagine but want to feel as such. I live amongst people who happily use services and comforts and infrastructure, but take every opportunity to attack the communal systems that create them as evil and have some idea it should be hundreds of millions of individuals doing what they want how they want.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#109

Post by linuxftw »

Miner49er wrote: post #97
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

Exactly. Cooking your family a meal, or helping your neighbor repair their house doesn't increase the GDP. However, ordering food with Uber and hiring someone to work on your house does. Being involved in your community, helping your neighbors and family, etc, isn't a "productive" activity. Another good example is programming side projects. How many people are looking to make money on their side project? Rather then…

Nothing fetishized about it at all. The middle class is being destroyed, it's eat or get eaten. Society is more competitive than it's ever been. It's going to get much worse.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#110

Post by stirfrykitty »

drdeadringer wrote: post #81
stirfrykitty wrote: post #37

I may be in the minority, but the older I get the more I want to be alone. I love my wife and kids, but there is almost too much pressure anymore to do this, do that. There are too many hands on my time. I recharge only when alone. I cannot do it with the TV on, kids in the background, etc. It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. I really like getting up at 0430 and being in the deer b…

> It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. Recently I watched the Liam Neeson version of "Cold Pursuit". In its honesty and humor, both of which I appreciate to no end, Neeson's character's wife opines in grief on their dead son. "Did you even know his favorite movie? All of those hunting trips, what did you talk about?!?" "... Hunting." So very true and honest in many respects.

Hunting is a very social exercise. My sons are not yet old enough to go without prattling on about this or that, spooking any game worth taking. I'm planning on next season taking one at a time and teaching them the craft and all that goes into it, which is great bonding. My dad was not much of a hunter, but my grandfather was, and because of that, some of my fondest memories are of us hunting doves and rabbits, and the countless fishing trips we did.

My hunting trips are just day trips. I'm not like some guys I know who fly to Colorado and Alaska, leaving the family behind. I want my sons to be involved, but they are not quite ready. My wife will sit in a deer stand with me and like to shoot, but will not shoot at animals. She likes the resulting venison, however.

Our early ancestors hunted in parties of several to dozens of men, often for safety against predators, both two and four legged. I like the idea the British use, several people driving birds, a good hunt, and cigars and gin and tonics afterwards in the game room. Done it. It's great.

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