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Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

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Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#31

Post by chance_state »

leesec wrote: post #21
chance_state wrote: post #2

What motivates extremely talented tech workers to devote their limited working years to making the world a worse place to live in?

Would you rather tech companies not be trying to help law enforcement or our military, and just leave them to their own devices? I have my answer, but I don't think it's nearly this black and white. Palantir probably does a lot of good, just like all the big tech companies, even though it's the bad stuff that mostly makes the news.

> Would you rather tech companies not be trying to help law enforcement or our military, and just leave them to their own devices?

Yes, I'd rather not aid law enforcement in spreading disinformation and targeting journalists, for example [1].

Though I do agree that it's not as cut and dry as "Palantir is evil".

[1] https://www.thetechherald.com/articles/Data-intelligence-fir...

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#32

Post by bluedino »

Doches wrote: post #19
spinlock wrote: post #11

One piece of data they cannot access is firearm ownership. It is illegal to use a computer to store information about guns in America.

This is genuinely the most amusing joke I've heard today. How do you think background checks for purchases work?

I am guessing the parent is referring to the “Acquisitions and Dispositions” bound book, which up until recently had to be kept on paper. It is permissible to keep these records in software if of the last year or two.

These books are kept by firearms sellers (FFL) and must be present to the ATF upon request

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#33

Post by ajna91 »

strooper wrote: post #22

> "Palantir software is instrumental to the operations of ICE, which is planning one of the largest-ever targeted immigration enforcement raids this weekend on thousands of undocumented families. Activists argue raids of this scale would be impossible without software like Palantir." Once and for all, it is the policy makers, not the tech industry, who are responsible for these operations. Tech enables people doing t…

"I am innocent of this man's blood; see you to it."

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#34

Post by m-p-3 »

overthemoon wrote: post #26
strooper wrote: post #22

> "Palantir software is instrumental to the operations of ICE, which is planning one of the largest-ever targeted immigration enforcement raids this weekend on thousands of undocumented families. Activists argue raids of this scale would be impossible without software like Palantir." Once and for all, it is the policy makers, not the tech industry, who are responsible for these operations. Tech enables people doing t…

I don't accept this. This is shirking responsibility for what one has brought into the world. Technology has a moral component that can't be ignored in the name of progressive idealism. It's both/and.

Still, if someone crafts a knife and someone uses it to hurt another I'll blame the user, not the crafter.

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#35

Post by elbasti »

_iyig wrote: post #7
chance_state wrote: post #2

What motivates extremely talented tech workers to devote their limited working years to making the world a worse place to live in?

What leads well-off Americans, whose safety and comfort is guaranteed by the constant efforts of law enforcement, to conclude that legal efforts to make law enforcement more efficient would make the world a worse place?

Quite simply the belief that:

1) these efforts do not guarantee their safety and comfort (though others might, these don't) and

2) that even if they did, the ethical price of hunting down undocumented immigrants is inexcusably high. That in the same way that you wouldn't behead someone for speeding, you shouldn't separate families and cause people to live in the shadows simply for having the privilege of cleaning your hotel sheets.

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#36

Post by homonculus1 »

Doches wrote: post #19
spinlock wrote: post #11

One piece of data they cannot access is firearm ownership. It is illegal to use a computer to store information about guns in America.

This is genuinely the most amusing joke I've heard today. How do you think background checks for purchases work?

They check against data for crime. How do you think background checks work?

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#38

Post by 49531 »

strooper wrote: post #22

> "Palantir software is instrumental to the operations of ICE, which is planning one of the largest-ever targeted immigration enforcement raids this weekend on thousands of undocumented families. Activists argue raids of this scale would be impossible without software like Palantir." Once and for all, it is the policy makers, not the tech industry, who are responsible for these operations. Tech enables people doing t…

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say the tech industry isn't responsible. At least as engineers I think there should be some ethical considerations.

I think there is a difference between a truly neutral tool being used for harmful purposes, and a tool specifically made for harmful purposes.

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#39

Post by _iyig »

strooper wrote: post #22

> "Palantir software is instrumental to the operations of ICE, which is planning one of the largest-ever targeted immigration enforcement raids this weekend on thousands of undocumented families. Activists argue raids of this scale would be impossible without software like Palantir." Once and for all, it is the policy makers, not the tech industry, who are responsible for these operations. Tech enables people doing t…

I'm an American citizen who is happy to see the law enforced. I don't live in Atherton or Palo Alto. There were two Central American gang-related shootings near my family's home last week; there were two MS-13 murders in the broader area earlier this year. I grew up here, and it didn't used to be like this. I want to see those who come here illegally, or who have been denied refugee status as the result of due process, deported.

I don't care what race, nationality, or religion they are. I also want to see families and young kids kept together, and treated humanely. But at the end of the day, we [the U.S.] are a nation of laws, or we are not. I'm proud of Palantir's efforts to help enforce the (democratically-enacted, internationally-conventional) law of the land.

Re: Palantir’s User Manual for Cops

#40

Post by metalliqaz »

strooper wrote: post #22

> "Palantir software is instrumental to the operations of ICE, which is planning one of the largest-ever targeted immigration enforcement raids this weekend on thousands of undocumented families. Activists argue raids of this scale would be impossible without software like Palantir." Once and for all, it is the policy makers, not the tech industry, who are responsible for these operations. Tech enables people doing t…

I used to think the same. I now think that this reasoning is faulty.

Cars can be used for good or evil. For the most part we leave it up to the users to do the right thing, however we don't just leave it up to the users. If a modern car manufacturer were to make a vehicle with no safety features whatsoever, we would rightly call them out as a bad actor. Seat belts, air bags, bumpers, crumple zones, defoggers, windshield wipers, and on and on. We have laws that require a basic level of safety for these potentially dangerous machines.

There is no reason we shouldn't expect tech and software firms to include basic "safety" considerations of their own.

Remember all those companies that helped implement censorship and spying systems for authoritarian regimes? Still thing it should up to "the lawmakers"?

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