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No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

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331–340 of 407 posts

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does bluff, but that’s not my point. My issue is that it bluffs without consideration of its opponent. High level strategic play of most games is about adapting to your opponents play. This bot does not do that. It is secretly a giant lookup table of game state to response. In the case of poker, it appears that adaptability is not as good as pure mathematical optimization. Humans can adapt their strategy, but it’s…

> High level strategic play of most games is about adapting to your opponents play. Is this true in any meaningful sense? For heavily studied games there's usually a theoretically optimal play independent of the opponent's interior state, this is obviously true for all the "Solved" games, which includes the simpler Heads Up Limit Hold 'Em poker (solved by Alberta's Cepheus project) but it seem pretty clearly true for…

> For heavily studied games there's usually a theoretically optimal play independent of the opponent's interior state, this is obviously true for all the "Solved" games, which includes the simpler Heads Up Limit Hold 'Em poker (solved by Alberta's Cepheus project) but it seem pretty clearly true for as-yet unsolved games like Go and Chess too.

In an n-player game, a table can be in a (perhaps unstable) equilibrium which the "optimal" strategy will lose at. This has been demonstrated for something as simple as iterated prisoners' dilemma (tit-for-tat is "best" for most populations, but there are populations that a tit-for-tat player will lose to). I don't play poker but I've definitely experienced that in (riichi) mahjong - if you play for high-value hands the way you would in a pro league, on a table where the other three players are going for the fastest hands possible, you will likely lose.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#332

One of the researchers, Tuomas Sundholm, has a real badass CV. Former pilot in the Finnish airforce. Finnish windsurfer champion. Snowboarder. Professor at Carnegie Mellon. Speaks four european languages, including swedish. And now at the age of 51, he has created the best AI powered poker bot. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/cv.pdf

392 published papers

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High level strategic play of most games is about adapting to your opponents play. Is this true in any meaningful sense? For heavily studied games there's usually a theoretically optimal play independent of the opponent's interior state, this is obviously true for all the "Solved" games, which includes the simpler Heads Up Limit Hold 'Em poker (solved by Alberta's Cepheus project) but it seem pretty clearly true for…

Adaptability is certainly not necessary (almost by definition) if you're playing a near to equilibrium strategy but adaptability is a useful skill to have in a general non-stationary world. That said, for this bot, I wouldn't say it's playing completely independent of the other players's interior state. Pluribus must infer its opponents strategy profile and according to the paper, maintains a distribution over possib…

> Pluribus must infer its opponents strategy profile

This is what interests me. It doesn’t do this. In fact because it played against itself only, it is should be assumed that the only strategy profile it considers is its own.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does bluff, but that’s not my point. My issue is that it bluffs without consideration of its opponent. High level strategic play of most games is about adapting to your opponents play. This bot does not do that. It is secretly a giant lookup table of game state to response. In the case of poker, it appears that adaptability is not as good as pure mathematical optimization. Humans can adapt their strategy, but it’s…

If you think about it, any AI that's stopped learning and is now efficiently doing pattern matching or pattern completion (assuming memory and attractor states), instead of running a complex search, is arguably a fancy lookup table hashed by similarity. This includes humans. In other words, lookup table isn't the slight most think it is. But the bot does do real time search so it's not "merely doing" a look-up. Becau…

I don’t mean look up table as a bad thing. I mean it’s a lookup table on game state, without incorporating any information about the players. But good points

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poker sites mainly detect bots based on their login times, number of tables, time per action, etc. A successful bot shouldn't get caught for "playing like a bot" because the moment it's actions are that predictable it would presumably no longer be effective. But it will get caught for operating like a bot. So, don't run it 24hrs a day. Sites also randomize things to keep bots at bay, even card imagery. If your perfor…

Just play as you normally would, with the bot advising moves from the laptop next to you.

Right, but the bot needs to know who is in what position what the bets are, who folded, etc. Try inputting all of that information manually to the laptop next to you and you'll quickly get frustrated. Online poker is a fast game with lots of data points.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just play as you normally would, with the bot advising moves from the laptop next to you.

Right, but the bot needs to know who is in what position what the bets are, who folded, etc. Try inputting all of that information manually to the laptop next to you and you'll quickly get frustrated. Online poker is a fast game with lots of data points.

TensorFlow, PyTorch, Caffe, Keras, MXNet, and OpenCV could copy the game if you split the video input for the player and the bot.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#338

I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA

I'm very late to this post, so not sure if you're still around.

What are your thoughts on a poker tournament for bots? Do you think it could turn into a successful product? I've always wanted to build an online poker/chess game that was designed from the ground up for bots (everything being accessible through an API), but have always worried that someone with more computational resources or the best bot would win consistently. Is it an idea you've thought about?

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just play as you normally would, with the bot advising moves from the laptop next to you.

Right, but the bot needs to know who is in what position what the bets are, who folded, etc. Try inputting all of that information manually to the laptop next to you and you'll quickly get frustrated. Online poker is a fast game with lots of data points.

An external camera with Image processor does that

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#340

One of the researchers, Tuomas Sundholm, has a real badass CV. Former pilot in the Finnish airforce. Finnish windsurfer champion. Snowboarder. Professor at Carnegie Mellon. Speaks four european languages, including swedish. And now at the age of 51, he has created the best AI powered poker bot. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/cv.pdf

Not to belittle the man's other achievements but speaking four languages is pretty normal in Europe, except when you're from the UK.

No it's not, what are you talking about? I've met thousands of young Europeans and ones that speak 4 languages are extremely rare. Unless they're from countries where they get 2 languages "for free" like Holland/Belgium/Switzerland. Definitely not "pretty normal".
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