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Thaddeus Kosciusko

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Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#21

Post by YayamiOmate »

satori99 wrote: post #18

> ... you probably haven’t heard of Andrzej Tadeusz Bonawentura Kosciuszko. Nor can you spell it or pronounce it; join the club, but we’re working on it. The largest mountain in Australia is named after him. So most Australians know, and can pronounce, his surname at the very least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kosciuszko

Emmm sorry to doubt Aussies, but type in Kościuszko in google translate and hit play. Their TTS is really good at pronounciation.

It's hard to do it correctly if your native tongue is not slavic. I'd like to be wrong though.

They should know the name, though. Yup.

If anyone's inclined towards random wiki trip I suggest reading about Strzelecki, who named the moutain. He was an explorer.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#22

Post by satori99 »

YayamiOmate wrote: post #21
satori99 wrote: post #18

> ... you probably haven’t heard of Andrzej Tadeusz Bonawentura Kosciuszko. Nor can you spell it or pronounce it; join the club, but we’re working on it. The largest mountain in Australia is named after him. So most Australians know, and can pronounce, his surname at the very least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kosciuszko

Emmm sorry to doubt Aussies, but type in Kościuszko in google translate and hit play. Their TTS is really good at pronounciation. It's hard to do it correctly if your native tongue is not slavic. I'd like to be wrong though. They should know the name, though. Yup. If anyone's inclined towards random wiki trip I suggest reading about Strzelecki, who named the moutain. He was an explorer.

Yeah, the wikipedia article addresses this somewhat;

The name of the mountain was previously spelt "Mount Kosciusko", an Anglicisation, but the spelling "Mount Kosciuszko" was officially adopted in 1997 by the Geographical Names Board of New South Wales. The traditional English pronunciation of Kosciuszko is /kɒziːˈʌskoʊ/, but the pronunciation /kɒˈʃʊʃkoʊ/ is now sometimes used, which is substantially closer to the Polish pronunciation [kɔɕˈt͡ɕuʂkɔ]

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#23

Post by chewz »

bouncycastle wrote: post #17

Another similar figure was Pułaski. Came to America in similar circumstances, achievements included the saving of George Washington's life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski

Puławski była kobietą... :-)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/science/casimir-pulaski-i...

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#24

Post by gambiting »

puszczyk wrote: post #5
gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

It was anglicized so that most of their readers can actually pronounce it. In the article they provide the original name. We do this all the time in Poland: Ludwik XIV instead of Luis XIV, Jerzy Waszyngton instead of George Washington, and gazillion other historical figures. Nowadays maybe a bit less popular but definitely a thing. So “no one ever does this” is not really true, is it?

You're absolutely correct, I was trying to think of some examples of this happening in Polish before writing my comment, but I couldn't think of any, but you're obviously correct. There's a few famous foreign characters which are usually Polish-icized(?), Szekspir is another as someone else commented.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#25

Post by V-2 »

puszczyk wrote: post #5
gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

It was anglicized so that most of their readers can actually pronounce it. In the article they provide the original name. We do this all the time in Poland: Ludwik XIV instead of Luis XIV, Jerzy Waszyngton instead of George Washington, and gazillion other historical figures. Nowadays maybe a bit less popular but definitely a thing. So “no one ever does this” is not really true, is it?

It's not "a bit less popular", but pretty much abandoned (apart from by some diehard conservatives such as Korwin-Mikke). Noone translates first names anymore, nor do we use phonetical spelling for the last names.

It's not by coincidence that "Jerzy Waszyngton" or "Izak Niuton", "Szekspir" etc. are hardly 20th century figures.

Have you ever seen "Ryszard Nikson" or "Stefan Hołking" in print? :) Like, once in your life? Exactly... So much for the "a bit less popular nowadays"...

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#26

Post by phillc73 »

pndy wrote: post #12
gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

You should hear how Australians are pronouncing Góra Kościuszki (Snowy Mountains, almost 400km south from Sydney) - it's something like "kazyjus-szko"

Actually, I thought more like "cozzie osko"

There's also a beer marketed under this name in Australia.[1]

[1] https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/kosciuszko-pale-ale/116538/

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#28

Post by cube2222 »

chewz wrote: post #10

Kościuszko had been venerated as a saint during communism in Poland (first Polish Division formed in Sovitet Union was named after him, my school was named after him and many others). But today is omitted from history and forgotten. The problem with Kosciuszko (and some other Polish officers of the era like Jakub Jasiński) is that they were deadly serious with abolishing slavery in America and serfdom in Poland (basi…

This is absolutely false. I'm a student in Poland so I'm fresh on this and - politics aside - he is a very big figure in Polish history books, and everybody knows about him.

(The Kościuszko Insurrection is one of the more important dates, that each student is supposed to remember)

So no, he's not forgotten at all nor omitted.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#29

Post by M4v3R »

evanb wrote: post #20

New York City just finished replacing the Kosciuszko Bridge, a critical segment of the BQE (I278). Most people in New York say "the koss-key-oss-ko bridge", though my understanding is that the pronunciation is more like "Ko-shuz-kuh"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosciuszko_Bridge

Neither :). It’s a pretty hard word for people outside Poland. I would say it’s pronounced more like “Kosh-choosh-kuh”. It still won’t be perfect, but close enough.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#30

Post by tpm »

gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

Maybe not in Polish (nor in Slovak) but in same languages this is indeed the usual way to import foreign words and also names. I seem to remember Bulgarian or Serbian film posters with Жан Рено (Jean Reno), because that's how it's pronounced. Also I think several East-Asian languages do this.
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