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Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#51

Post by toast0 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #42
pardavis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job takes me to many Amazon FCs. The job families that we currently offer through career development classes are usually things like CDL, operations management, dentistry, EMT, process engineering, mechanical tech, etc. It is really a grab bag of what is most highly requested by the diverse working cohort at each FC. Code as HN would think of it is not as common, but associates becoming IT or facilities technician…

> dentistry can you add some detail here? Are the career development classes intended to prepare people for life outside Amazon? Or does Amazon have company dentists?

There is a shortage of dental hygenists in the Seattle area right now....

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#52

Post by reaperducer »

pkaye wrote: post #25

My first job out of school 25 years ago they were big on further education and training. You actually had in your yearly objectives that you complete atleast 10 days of training. There was a dedicated campus for this purpose. And these were indepth courses that would spend 5 full days on some skills. I don't see that kind of thing any more and miss it.

The company I work for mandates a certain number of classes per employee each year and has a list of about 30 others that are optional.

Some are as basic as Advanced Microsoft Word. Some are upper level management stuff, but are open to any employee in any role all the way down to the security guards.

A cooking class is offered every other month. I always take those.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#53

Post by Dylan16807 »

lbatx wrote: post #36
ardy42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation. This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other management changes that Amazon is probably…

1. Is it really too much to believe that someone with a physically demanding job might be in good enough condition to do something else after work? I'm pretty sure folks in all sorts of physical jobs have physical hobbies as well. You never hear this sort of excuse about carpenters. 2. It's hard to work full time and go to school after. It's by definition going above and beyond.

"Excuse"? You think people are being too lenient about the warehouse workers? Those jobs are awful, and it's not about simply being a physical job. I would much rather do carpentry.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#54

Post by adrianN »

allthecybers wrote: post #49
mdorazio wrote: post #9

It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

Imagine if everyone learned to code... the coal miners, the fireman and the classy janitor, the cashiers with dignity, the migraine workers... then no one would get paid the big bucks for coding.

Sounds like a good outcome to me. Cheaper software is a good thing.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#55

Post by adrianN »

mywittyname wrote: post #7
redleader9345 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. who'd of guessed that coal miners can't code?

I suspect that most laymen find our line of work to be kind of trivial and think that success in this field is more related to youth than intelligence. To them, "coding" is more akin to carpentry (a trade) than physics (a science). Also, pointing out that not every coal miner can learn to code is seen as culturally insensitive and perpetuating the stereotype that rural people are dumb. Which I understand, but a littl…

To be honest, a lot of coding is fairly trivial.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#56

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

lbatx wrote: post #36
ardy42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation. This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other management changes that Amazon is probably…

1. Is it really too much to believe that someone with a physically demanding job might be in good enough condition to do something else after work? I'm pretty sure folks in all sorts of physical jobs have physical hobbies as well. You never hear this sort of excuse about carpenters. 2. It's hard to work full time and go to school after. It's by definition going above and beyond.

Amazon warehouse jobs aren't just physically demanding. I agree that one can study hard after half a day spent on some physical effort. Instead the problem is that Amazon pickers are under constant stress all those hours to meet targets far more demanding than most other jobs. I would expect that constant mental stress to leave people so frazzled at day's end that they would be unable to hit the books and concentrate.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#57

Post by mensetmanusman »

ardy42 wrote: post #22
super-serial wrote: post #2

I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation. This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other management changes that Amazon is probably…

I have a brother in law going through this process. Having young kids seems to be enough motivation to work more after brutal overnight shifts. He recently immigrated to the US.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#58

Post by jgmjgm »

Waterluvian wrote: post #17
killjoywashere wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

17% strikes me as not bad. Not great, but not awful. People who take jobs that are at eminent risk of automation probably weren't exceptionally diligent in school the first time around. Add in the burdens of adulthood (parenting, bills, etc) and the odds of staying in a retraining program seem bleak. Does anyone have a better success rate?

17% sounds good to me. I did co-op at Elections Ontario and the place is just chock full of barely employable people who resist change to the status quo.

You poor bastard. I worked for the federal government too.

I remember being told that working for the government for more than a few years would make me unemployable in the private sector. The idea was one's work ethic would be irremediably damaged. I thought that was foolish at the start of my time there, but a year later I had a new respect for the heuristic.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#59

Post by jgmjgm »

mulmen wrote: post #44
ardy42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation. This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other management changes that Amazon is probably…

I worked harvest and was a janitor in college and still had energy to study. I had no time to do anything else but it was strangely “easy” at the time because I had no distractions.

Fair enough, but not all people have that experience. Things often get harder as you age.

Sadly, some people make poor decisions when they are young and course correcting gets harder the older one gets.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#60

Post by jgmjgm »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #38
redleader9345 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. who'd of guessed that coal miners can't code?

Is that remark necessary? Honestly, the classicist/entitled bullshit about what we (technologists) do is completely unearned. What most of us do isn’t special and the gate-keeping many people in this industry do to prevent others from entering this industry (and I’m guilty of it too at times) is unearned. I’m glad Amazon is doing things like this. I’m glad programs are encouraging coal miners to learn a new skill. Pr…

I agree. There was a time it was normal for an organization to invest in its employees. Perhaps it's cheaper to externalize the costs of retraining for smaller firms. But perhaps for larger employers it is starting to make economic sense. I hope this becomes a real trend.
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