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Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

m.economictimes.com

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Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#71

Post by srib »

whatshisface wrote: post #57
nyrulez wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid you are right but people in India don't seem to care. I go there every year and life there compared to 10 years ago is night and day. Even in cities that are further away from the big 4 (e.g. north of New Delhi, even in Himachal Pradesh which used to be very clean as the Himalayas start there) have an extremely visible layer of smog, especially in winters. Pollution is pretty bad and water shortage is beco…

Why do they accept their holy rivers being polluted? Surely the religious leadership is not happy with that.

> Surely the religious leadership is not happy with that.

Hindu religion is not like Catholic Church. Unfortunately, in such issues, it is very fragmented and 'decentralized' with multiple different sects, castes, pontiffs etc.

Uttar Pradesh, where Ganga mostly flows has a lot of water heavy low-tech businesses. Leather tanneries is the first thing that comes to my mind. Illiteracy doesn't help either.

Things are changing. Ganga in Varanasi and a few other areas are much cleaner in the last couple years than they have been in the past!

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#72

Post by mayankkaizen »

unexpected wrote: post #47
rorykoehler wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about the move of manufacturing to India. Whilst I would like Indians to be economically successful I can't ignore the ecological disaster that is happening in their country. It is absolutely terrifying. The air in Mumbai was unbreathable when I visited and it wasn't even ranking remotely near the top in the most polluted city air in India at the time (Delhi's was 3x as bad). Adding to this the…

Let's use your reasons, but look at it from the opposite side: 1) The largest contributor to the poor air quality in India is the practice of burning to clear fields, cook stoves that use wood, and the burning of cow dung [ https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels... ]. One easy way to bring these people out of poverty is to provide them with good economic opportunities (like factory jobs!). High-…

The three reasons you mentioned are indeed the prevalent reasons but mostly in rural part of india.

In cities like Delhi and Mumbai, none of these is major reason. Pollution from vehicles (especially diesel vehicles), crop waste burning (esp in areas around Delhi) and industrial pollution are the major reasons. These cities are too densed and yet too big.

The sad thing is that there are hundreds of laws to prevent pollution but law enforcement is not a thing in India.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#73

Post by dahfizz »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #52
dirtyid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>move all production out of the PRC ... >Interesting to note the article mentions iPhone 6, 6s and 7 This is pretty much why Apple or other OEMs can't move all production out of PRC. Mainland supply chain and expertise is critical to rapidly refining and launching new products. Once manufacturing matures, the process can be exported to other countries. Apart from Indian, I don't think any other country can replicate…

Exactly, it would be a courageous move for the richest company in the world (by cash on hand, seems to still be Apple by a wide margin) to risk losing $$ for standing up with its moral values.

It would also be great if they donated 50% of profits to charity. Companies don't throw away money for the fun of it.

For all it's 'courage' and self righteousness, Apple is a profit seeking entity like every other.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#74

Post by avemuri »

new299 wrote: post #2

I’d be curious to know which parts of the manufacturing process are carried out in India. I assume it includes “final assembly”. But does all CNC work, PCB assembly happen in India? PCB assembly in particular, seems unlikely? The supply chains are all in China, and it’s a largely automated procsss.

I think it's still done by Foxconn, just at an Indian facility. Chinese company in India, not domestic capability.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#75

Post by dirtyid »

shitgoose wrote: post #53
dirtyid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>move all production out of the PRC ... >Interesting to note the article mentions iPhone 6, 6s and 7 This is pretty much why Apple or other OEMs can't move all production out of PRC. Mainland supply chain and expertise is critical to rapidly refining and launching new products. Once manufacturing matures, the process can be exported to other countries. Apart from Indian, I don't think any other country can replicate…

first iphone was announced in 2007. much less than one generation ago. india will be fine.

The Chinese supply chains that eventually build the iPhone grew from economic development zones in the 80s. India isn't starting from zero, but it's also not going to replicate that within a decade. Assuming it could - we don't know if democracies can direct capital development the same way authoritarian state capitalism could. I think India should be fine, at least in the short term, if only because Chinese manufacturing want to migrate to ASEAN. It benefits their bottom line. However, there's also the possibility that China will spin up African manufacturing before Indian industry can inherit the role.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#76

Post by barry-cotter »

londons_explore wrote: post #14
mikepurvis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like getting to 30% of the value would be a stretch if the ICs, PCB assembly, and possibly screen are coming from China and Taiwan/TSMC. Like, the case and battery are worth something, but not tons.

It's pretty easy to value custom built components whatever you like. They are either very cheap components, but you paid a massive r&d grant to have them designed for you, or they are very expensive components but you paid no r&d costs. Choose whatever suits to best avoid taxes, quotas, fees, and regulations...

> It's pretty easy to value custom built components whatever you like.

Not if you’ve valued them very differently before in different tax jurisdictions. There’s definitely a certain degree of freedom in how the components of a finished product are valued when they have no, or very limited, alternative uses, but you can’t just pick a number arbitrarily out of a hat. Companies have to do internal cost accounting to figure out whether manufacturing a component to a certain quality, or in a certain place makes sense, and while there may not be exact equivalents on the open market there will be close ones in most cases. Worst comes to worst you can see how much an order of size X would cost from a manufacturer capable of producing the component. There are many degrees of freedom in transfer pricing but they’re finite.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#77

Post by dirtyid »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #52
dirtyid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>move all production out of the PRC ... >Interesting to note the article mentions iPhone 6, 6s and 7 This is pretty much why Apple or other OEMs can't move all production out of PRC. Mainland supply chain and expertise is critical to rapidly refining and launching new products. Once manufacturing matures, the process can be exported to other countries. Apart from Indian, I don't think any other country can replicate…

Exactly, it would be a courageous move for the richest company in the world (by cash on hand, seems to still be Apple by a wide margin) to risk losing $$ for standing up with its moral values.

I don't think it's a matter of risking money, rather annual product cycles, i.e. their entire hardware business model is not viable without China. If there's another country that can do what China currently dose at twice the price, moving there would be courage. If moving out of China means 2 year hardware cycles then that would short sighted.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#78

Post by AareyBaba »

avemuri wrote: post #74
new299 wrote: post #2

I’d be curious to know which parts of the manufacturing process are carried out in India. I assume it includes “final assembly”. But does all CNC work, PCB assembly happen in India? PCB assembly in particular, seems unlikely? The supply chains are all in China, and it’s a largely automated procsss.

I think it's still done by Foxconn, just at an Indian facility. Chinese company in India, not domestic capability.

Foxconn is a Taiwan based company.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#79

Post by fastball »

mikepurvis wrote: post #37
londons_explore wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to value custom built components whatever you like. They are either very cheap components, but you paid a massive r&d grant to have them designed for you, or they are very expensive components but you paid no r&d costs. Choose whatever suits to best avoid taxes, quotas, fees, and regulations...

I guess that's true. If you're not actually selling them other than in your device, you can argue that they're basically worthless as bits of plastic and metal, and all the "value" is being created by the India-based assembly process that turns them from parts into functioning phones.

Not if you're paying X to produce these parts.

You can't say "this part is only worth $10" if it's costing you $100 to produce.

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