No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game • Hacker News Board

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#211

Post by tempestn » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #204

BigJono wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure I've read a long time back on 2p2 that large consistant winners on certain sites have been asked to submit camera footage of their play with a clear view of screens and inputs. So this is probably something that companies like Pokerstars have been dealing with for years already.

It would be pretty easy to hide something signalling you on what to play from cameras.

True, but ultimately if they're unsure they'll just ban you from the platform anyway. Consistent, winning players aren't really where they make their money, and they're free to ban anyone they like. (I realize technically they take a cut from all players, but more money gets sloshed around for them to skim off of if winning players aren't removing it from the system.)

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#212

Post by albedoa » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

Denzel wrote: post #182

albedoa wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when it bets with a weak hand, the opponent (another copy of itself) sometimes folds and it makes more money than if it hadn't bet. This makes no sense. If I am betting for thin value with a weak hand, then I make less money when my opponent folds. Does the bot not know whether it is bluffing or value betting?

It makes complete sense. There’s a component of value and a component of bluff for a given hand in front of you. They’re related. Value betting and bluffing aren’t defined by the outcome of a hand — action yet to be completed. Poker is a game of hidden information so betting with “thin value” implies that your component of bluffing is larger. You want your opponent to fold more often than not when you have thin value…

> You want your opponent to fold more often than not when you have thin value because more often than not you’re actually beat.

No, that is simply not true. If I am betting for value, then I want my opponent to call no matter how weak I am or how thin it is.

> But you don’t know the other person is holding KK when you’re betting for “thin value” on the river.

Then it's a value bet. As you said, it's not defined by the outcome.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#213

Post by solidasparagus » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

So Dota 2 doesn't count as a multiplayer game?

OpenAI Five beat the world champions in back-to-back games...

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#214

Post by zwendkos » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

grandtour001 wrote: post #207

Were the games played with real money? Nobody is going to take fake money games seriously.

This is the most important question.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#215

Post by stevespang » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:08 AM UTC

noambrown wrote: post #6

I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA

Noam, I know you can't discuss the all the specific proprietary details of the algorithm, I just graduated Comp. Sci UT Austin and I'm totally captivated by any and all of the more technical details of the algorithm . . .

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#216

Post by grizzles » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

noambrown wrote: post #6

I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA

Any chance you could put Libratus / Pluribus online for people like me to try to beat it?

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#217

Post by elefanten » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #213

So Dota 2 doesn't count as a multiplayer game? OpenAI Five beat the world champions in back-to-back games...

Agreed, the "first multiplayer" claim needs some walking back or caveats.

Cool achievement, but hollow marketing doesn't make it better.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#218

Post by filoleg » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #213

So Dota 2 doesn't count as a multiplayer game? OpenAI Five beat the world champions in back-to-back games...

My guess is that by "multiplayer", they meant "free for all", as opposed to "N vs. N". In other words, multiple opposing factions.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#219

Post by floodyberry- » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

andr3w321 wrote: post #62

noambrown wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the poker world would be happy with us if we did that. Heads-up limit hold'em isn't really played professionally anymore, but six-player no-limit hold'em is very popular.

It depends who you ask. I think it's inevitable that it's released one day. By not releasing you're just delaying it. All the top high stakes players already have solvers that they've spent a lot of money developing and studying privately. They would definitely be upset with you, but by releasing the code you are democratizing the information to all the midstakes pros who want to study but don't have the resources to…

If you're already using programs to help you, I don't see how you can be upset if someone else is cheating better than you are.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#220

Post by taejavu » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #213

So Dota 2 doesn't count as a multiplayer game? OpenAI Five beat the world champions in back-to-back games...

Yes, Dota 2 is not a multiplayer poker game. I agree that the title is ambiguous, but it's not a stretch to imagine that "poker" is implied here.