Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#11

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

super-serial wrote: post #2

I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

17% strikes me as not bad. Not great, but not awful. People who take jobs that are at eminent risk of automation probably weren't exceptionally diligent in school the first time around. Add in the burdens of adulthood (parenting, bills, etc) and the odds of staying in a retraining program seem bleak.

Does anyone have a better success rate?

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#12

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

mywittyname wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that most laymen find our line of work to be kind of trivial and think that success in this field is more related to youth than intelligence. To them, "coding" is more akin to carpentry (a trade) than physics (a science). Also, pointing out that not every coal miner can learn to code is seen as culturally insensitive and perpetuating the stereotype that rural people are dumb. Which I understand, but a littl…

Your suspicions are exactly opposite from what I can tell talking to a number of blue-collar people. A lot of the ones I’ve talked to seem very apprehensive about learning anything technical involving a computer, and it all seems kind of mystical in there eyes. Honestly I think a lot of what holds people back is a lack of confidence and a willingness to learn more than anything else.

I wouldn't say it's an unwillingness to learn so much as a paralyzing fear of failure, which they believe (rightfully so) is inherent in the learning process.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#13

Post by lojack » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #9

It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

The article only mentions software engineering courses, so I’m not sure it’s a result of this being hacker news as much as what the article states.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#14

Post by musicale » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

I definitely read that as "retain."

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#15

Post by dang » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 11:27 PM UTC

istorical wrote: post #10

Headline might be more clear as 'Amazon to Retrain a Third of its U.S. Workers...'

We've updated the headline to that of the article. NYT headlines often change, so I assume that happened here.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#16

Post by burtonator » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 11:47 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #9

It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

We would have better success of giving them a choice instead of picking just one.

People work better when they're passionate about what they're working on.

The best way to control your flock is to let them roam free.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#17

Post by Waterluvian » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 11:55 PM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #11

super-serial wrote: post #2

I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

17% strikes me as not bad. Not great, but not awful. People who take jobs that are at eminent risk of automation probably weren't exceptionally diligent in school the first time around. Add in the burdens of adulthood (parenting, bills, etc) and the odds of staying in a retraining program seem bleak. Does anyone have a better success rate?

17% sounds good to me. I did co-op at Elections Ontario and the place is just chock full of barely employable people who resist change to the status quo.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#18

Post by k__ » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

burtonator wrote: post #16

mdorazio wrote: post #9

It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

We would have better success of giving them a choice instead of picking just one. People work better when they're passionate about what they're working on. The best way to control your flock is to let them roam free.

True, while I think that's what Amazon should do, I can understand why HN like to talk about turning everyone into a dev.

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#19

Post by martinpw » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #9

It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

It is not just coding. This WSJ article has some more detail:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-retrain-a-third-of-it...

eg

The training programs could help Amazon workers find jobs in different industries, the company said. It is expanding a program for fulfillment-center employees called Amazon Career Choice that pays 95% of tuition and fees for certificates and degrees in high-demand fields such as nursing and aircraft mechanics

Re: Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force

#20

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 12:24 AM UTC

super-serial wrote: post #2

I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders. When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

Amazon doesn't care about the success rate. They just need positive spin they can point to for any layoffs. "See, we had these retraining programs in place for our recently redundant workers."