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Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

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Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#101

Post by izzydata »

Someone1234 wrote: post #52

Soda is poison. It might sound dramatic, but I think we'll come to see it as similar to smoking or heavy alcohol drinking (assuming we aren't there already). I've been trying to quit for years. I'll likely get mocked, but it is quite addictive once you're hooked (particularly as it makes you tired, which makes you want to drink more to feel "normal"). I'm trying to move to sweetened Iced Tea (40% less sugar) and even…

I used to drink 6 cans a day, but then I started taking 1 caffeine capsule a day and drinking water. Hopefully normal amounts of caffeine by itself isn't also cancerous, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#102

Post by krageon »

mehrdadn wrote: post #77
salex89 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not intentionally, but generally yes, just by forgetting a glass. However, it also has not happened recently, I don't drink any kind of bought juice any more. I squeeze it myself.

Well next time you squeeze one, try this yourself intentionally. Fill a glass with orange juice, put some plastic wrap tightly over it, leave it in the fridge for a week (or however long you think is the average selling period for your local store), then try drinking it and seeing if it tastes rancid like you expect. Then ask yourself honestly if what you observed is significant support for the notion that the store-…

I have done this repeatedly over the last few years (I drank a lot of freshly squeezed orange juice for a while and squeezed it in bulk) and I can therefore say with certainty that orange juice that is fresh will start tasting weird after 1-2 days in the fridge (kind of tingly, like it's fermented). This doesn't happen with fruit juice of any kind from a carton, to say nothing of the fact that orange juice from a carton is fairly disgusting.

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#103

Post by mehrdadn »

krageon wrote: post #102
mehrdadn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well next time you squeeze one, try this yourself intentionally. Fill a glass with orange juice, put some plastic wrap tightly over it, leave it in the fridge for a week (or however long you think is the average selling period for your local store), then try drinking it and seeing if it tastes rancid like you expect. Then ask yourself honestly if what you observed is significant support for the notion that the store-…

I have done this repeatedly over the last few years (I drank a lot of freshly squeezed orange juice for a while and squeezed it in bulk) and I can therefore say with certainty that orange juice that is fresh will start tasting weird after 1-2 days in the fridge (kind of tingly, like it's fermented). This doesn't happen with fruit juice of any kind from a carton, to say nothing of the fact that orange juice from a car…

How much air contact do you let your squeezed juice have while it's in the fridge? Also, what do the labels on your carton say? (Like ingredients, "from concentrate", "pasteurized", anything else potentially relevant?)

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#104

Post by krageon »

mehrdadn wrote: post #103
krageon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done this repeatedly over the last few years (I drank a lot of freshly squeezed orange juice for a while and squeezed it in bulk) and I can therefore say with certainty that orange juice that is fresh will start tasting weird after 1-2 days in the fridge (kind of tingly, like it's fermented). This doesn't happen with fruit juice of any kind from a carton, to say nothing of the fact that orange juice from a car…

How much air contact do you let your squeezed juice have while it's in the fridge? Also, what do the labels on your carton say? (Like ingredients, "from concentrate", "pasteurized", anything else potentially relevant?)

I've tried pasteurized and from concentrate. It should surprise nobody that those don't really grow things, but then I store both types in whatever carton they come in or that I decant them into (I had bottles for the squeezed orange juice). I kept neither completely open in the fridge, as that makes everything smell like orange juice and the orange juice itself taste like fridge.

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#105

Post by mehrdadn »

krageon wrote: post #104
mehrdadn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much air contact do you let your squeezed juice have while it's in the fridge? Also, what do the labels on your carton say? (Like ingredients, "from concentrate", "pasteurized", anything else potentially relevant?)

I've tried pasteurized and from concentrate. It should surprise nobody that those don't really grow things, but then I store both types in whatever carton they come in or that I decant them into (I had bottles for the squeezed orange juice). I kept neither completely open in the fridge, as that makes everything smell like orange juice and the orange juice itself taste like fridge.

If your question is merely why yours only lasts a couple days when mine lasted a week, it might've just been due to a difference in air contact or something, since in my case I think I pretty much filled a glass to the brim, put plastic wrap over it, and left it like that in the fridge for a week. I think my goal in that particular experiment was just to show orange juice doesn't inherently need special treatment to last that long.

But I thought the whole debate here is whether they're doing something to commercial juice that's different from what you get when you squeeze your own. In which case... shouldn't you be comparing home-squeezed vs. the store-bought ones that are not pasteurized or from concentrate? The ones that are claiming they're absolutely nothing but just squeezed orange juice? If the label already says it's been treated differently then there's nothing to investigate...

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#106

Post by krageon »

mehrdadn wrote: post #105
krageon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried pasteurized and from concentrate. It should surprise nobody that those don't really grow things, but then I store both types in whatever carton they come in or that I decant them into (I had bottles for the squeezed orange juice). I kept neither completely open in the fridge, as that makes everything smell like orange juice and the orange juice itself taste like fridge.

If your question is merely why yours only lasts a couple days when mine lasted a week, it might've just been due to a difference in air contact or something, since in my case I think I pretty much filled a glass to the brim, put plastic wrap over it, and left it like that in the fridge for a week. I think my goal in that particular experiment was just to show orange juice doesn't inherently need special treatment to…

I will readily admit that I don't believe such a juice exists in any shops close to me. Anything that claims to be fresh is from concentrate, pasteurized or barely the juice that it claims to be (eg 90% apple juice, 7% the juice that you want, 3% unaccounted for).

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#107

Post by mehrdadn »

krageon wrote: post #106
mehrdadn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your question is merely why yours only lasts a couple days when mine lasted a week, it might've just been due to a difference in air contact or something, since in my case I think I pretty much filled a glass to the brim, put plastic wrap over it, and left it like that in the fridge for a week. I think my goal in that particular experiment was just to show orange juice doesn't inherently need special treatment to…

I will readily admit that I don't believe such a juice exists in any shops close to me. Anything that claims to be fresh is from concentrate, pasteurized or barely the juice that it claims to be (eg 90% apple juice, 7% the juice that you want, 3% unaccounted for).

Ah I see. It depends on where/which country you are I guess. As a couple examples, if you're somewhere with a Target, Simply Orange [1] claims to be pasteurized, whereas Tropicana does not [2], and neither is from concentrate. Although it's possible they both are pasteurized and the labeling isn't required... I don't know if it is.

However, if your next-best option is pasteurized juice, that sounds... just fine, if not even better? I mean I hope you're not finding pasteurization a horrifying Big Ag conspiracy of some sort. And pasteurization seems like a pretty plausible explanation of the difference you see compared to what you squeeze yourself... so then what's the huge worry?

[1] https://www.target.com/p/simply-orange-pulp-free-juice-52-fl...

[2] https://www.target.com/p/tropicana-pure-premium-no-pulp-oran...

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#108

Post by newen »

mehrdadn wrote: post #87
Someone1234 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to ignore the science, you can argue that soda isn't addictive. We know that sugar and caffeine each in isolation are addictive. We also know that the combination is addictive. But all the studies could also be "data points." It really comes down to how many data points you feel qualifies for legitimacy/where the threshold is. For example Caffeine: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/4/1144/4557113…

Where did I ignore science? My whole point was that you need to provide scientific evidence if you want to conclude a substance is addictive, not just 1 data point from yourself. Otherwise I would just cite myself because I stopped drinking soda the day I decided to and my body couldn't care less, and now we're back at square one.

Just because someone says a fact and then a personal anecdote doesn't mean there isn't lots of scientific proof behind that fact. Not every comment needs to be someone stating a fact and then including pages of references supporting that fact.

Re: Sugary drinks and cancer risk: results from NutriNet-Santé prospective cohort

#109

Post by Jnr »

docker_up wrote: post #91
Someone1234 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats on the impressive progress. How did you get started/what steps did you take? Was it a straight switch to water (with occasional back-slide), or did you just slowly progress away from the soda one drink at a time?

Thanks but it's far from impressive. It's been years. I've gone back and forth and did no-carb a few times (lost 30 lbs once and then fell off the wagon) which helped me break the habit. But then someone stressful would occur and I was back to 1-2 Cokes a day for a while. Finally I scared myself enough that sugar drinks cause pancreatic cancer (no evidence but I'm still scared) and high fructose corn syrup causes fat…

Since I don't drink tea or coffee (I dislike warm drinks, especially in summer) I was left with soft drinks, juices or plain water. And since most places don't offer tasty water and each place has different juices I went with soft drinks - Cola is universal!

You could say that I used a lot of it but then one day I decided to see if I would be able to quit and so I just did it. It wasn't hard at all and it did not change the way I feel. I started drinking mostly water instead (it is still hard to get tasty water so I ask for a slice of lemon in it whenever it is available). Now I sometimes go for freshly squeezed juice and from time to time I drink some soft drinks but I do not depend on them like I did before.

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