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No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

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Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#151
post #100
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you concerned about the happiness of the poker world?

Well if they upset the poker world do you think they would have top pros willing to go on record endorsing them?

Top pros will endorse whatever they're paid to endorse.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really confused about why stock for the company that makes PokerStars hasn't moved at all today: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=fin&q=TSE:+TSGI#scso=_wqsn... The fact that there's a published recipe for a superhuman bot that can be trained for $150 and run on any desktop computer sounds like an existential threat to their business. The main mitigating factor I can think of is that you'd need to also adversaria…

You know, now that we're talking about it I'm wondering if someone hasn't already come up with a better bot and has just been silently using it to win money online. I'm sure the sites have been crawling with bots as long as they've been around, some better than others. As long as it doesn't drive away too many customers I doubt the sites care. They still take a rake on bot games. However better AI could change that a…

Dumb money has been drying up for years. There have been bots taking millions of dollars out of games for more than a decade. Even bots from 10 years ago were sophisticated enough to win money at mid-stakes poker (up to $2000 buy in 6max no limit games)

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#154
I would love to get a hands on the source. Hook it up to an API like https://pokr.live and then basically build a computer vision poker bot.

The trick is how to create natural mouse click movements or keyboard inputs. This is the part that I'm most shaky on but the pokr.live API works by sending screenshots which it will translate into player actions at the table

disclaimer: pokr.live API is a WIP

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#155
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find it confirmed in the primary or secondary article, but I would bet the bot is just playing cash at a fixed stack depth rather than a tournament; just like in the wild, bots are much more of a problem in online cash than online tournaments. Dynamically adjusting strategies by stack depth, number of players, and pay jumps, would probably be several orders of magnitude more complex.

Smaller stack sizes reduce possibilities and thus reduce complexity. Pay jumps result in chips having different utility to each player which forces some situational playstyles to be more optimal. I would guess that this also reduces the complexity of the game. Since tournaments don't often spend much time with stacks much deeper than 100bb, I would guess that tournaments would be more easily solved. Though tournament…

You're right that a single short stack hand in a vacuum has fewer game tree branches, and that factoring in chip utility is also fairly straightforward. But I strongly disagree that it reduces the overall complexity of the game. The model in the article played every single hand with 100bb; to be an effective tournament player it would have to be able to fluidly adjust strategies between big, medium and short stack play, as well as reasoning about the stack sizes of other players at the table. It's basically 4 different games at >100bb, 50-100bb, 25-50bb, and <25bb, so it would have to develop optimal strategies for each. And even if the shallower stacked games are generally simpler in isolation, there's a meta strategy of knowing which one to apply in a given hand with heterogenous stack sizes. To paraphrase Doug Polk "If cash game play is a science, tournaments are more of an art."

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#156
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect it would not be able to maintain a ~40bb/100 hand win rate. The thing about human players is, while the best are capable of learning and employing truly balanced GTO strategies, in practice they rarely adhere to these because other humans (even good pros) will still have exploitable flaws in their strategies, and attempting to exploit these will be more profitable than sticking to the unexploitable str…

Yeah, that is kinda what I was trying to tease out. These 10K hands are nothing compared to the XM of hands these pros have already played. It would be interesting to see how well they did after 1M hands. I'm sure the bot would likely still have an edge but I'd assume the players would adjust their strategy and but less confused by the random sized bets. I was also confused by the sample videos where everyone had $10…

Stacks are reset to 10k at the beginning of each hand, so they can use every hand to train a single model with the same starting state.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#158

How long until a slightly worse version of this model is reverse engineered and appears at every table in online poker?

I'm wondering how long until poker games will require a captcha on every round

Will not help against human/AI hybrids. Use machine vision to decipher state of the game, and covertly suggest moves via audio or perhaps vibrations.

Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game

#160

So, is this the end of online poker? Will it just become increasingly sophisticated bots playing each other online?

How do we know that online poker has ever been a fair game? Has anyone ever done a statistical study of verified real players to determine whether their collective historical winnings match what would be expected in a fair game? It seems like it would be much too easy for the operators to skim money in any one of a thousand ways. I've never understood the trust people place in online gambling in general.

In theory, you can implement a provably fair poker game on the blockchain.
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