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US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

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Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is a much more diverse population... Why is this always a fallback reference point? It is demonstrably false[0,1,2,3] and is continually regurgitated - as if the continued repetition would make it consequently true. There are countries in Europe that are far more diverse than the United States. Full stop. > But dealing with that chaos, at that scale, produces lessons and learning that won't happen anywhere e…

Just point at the data. The extra layer of attitude doesn't sell your argument, but just distracts from it. Sort the first table by rank US - 87 UK -109 France - 117 Germany - 148. When we talk about the West who else is anyone referring to? Denmark - 144. Norway - 146. My comment is in response to someone separating the US from the west, not US compared to the rest of the world. So don't be in such a hurry to react.…

>Just point at the data. The extra layer of attitude doesn't sell your argument, but just distracts from it.

I gave you the data, you did a cursory look over it, cherry-picked the data points you wanted, and then continued on with your belief that you are correct.

If you take offense to my frustrations at having heard this for the three-thousandth time, then I do apologise but this tired, old cliche is burning itself out faster than a B1 in a binary system.

>Sort the first table by rank US - 87 UK -109 France - 117 Germany - 148. When we talk about the West who else is anyone referring to? Denmark - 144. Norway - 146.

...and...

>The data shows the US is more diverse than other western countries.

From the exact same table that you referenced: Bosnia and Herzegovina - 41, Latvia - 61, Switzerland - 63, Belgium - 65, Estonia - 77, Moldova - 78, Spain - 82

Now back to:

>When we talk about the West who else is anyone referring to?

From a non-American exceptionalism perspective, when we mention the west we are generally speaking about the countries that make up the western world, not just the United States, yeah? ...or we can even go so far as to say countries that have been directly influenced by or have direct political affiliations with countries in the Western Hemisphere. ...or if you want to go Soviet-era, the west could just be any country that has any form of democracy.

>The data shows the US is more diverse than other western countries.

It does not, as the data I originally referenced proves. Even limited to just the Northern and Western Hemispheres, Canada and Mexico are far more diverse and have cities that are just as densely populated.

>My city has a population somewhere between Ireland and Norway but it's impossible to handle social issues the way those countries do or use them as models precisely because of the population density and diversity.

This makes no sense. They all have forms of representative democracies, county governments, city governments, etc. Why do you believe it's "easier" for these areas to handle social issues and that it comes down to the sole factor of diversity and/or population density...? Do you honestly believe that differences do not exist in the political spectrum in homogeneous areas? Are you not aware that there have been periods where countries didn't have official governments for this reason (e.g.: Ireland and Sweden)?

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#82
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is a much more diverse population... Why is this always a fallback reference point? It is demonstrably false[0,1,2,3] and is continually regurgitated - as if the continued repetition would make it consequently true. There are countries in Europe that are far more diverse than the United States. Full stop. > But dealing with that chaos, at that scale, produces lessons and learning that won't happen anywhere e…

Just point at the data. The extra layer of attitude doesn't sell your argument, but just distracts from it. Sort the first table by rank US - 87 UK -109 France - 117 Germany - 148. When we talk about the West who else is anyone referring to? Denmark - 144. Norway - 146. My comment is in response to someone separating the US from the west, not US compared to the rest of the world. So don't be in such a hurry to react.…

Belgium(65) and Switzerland(63) are definitely western world.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always nice to have data instead of opinion on these sort of topics.

While we are on this subject, and since I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, let's give another exemple where fact and numbers are more important than generalisation and opinions: a big contention point about tariff between EU/US was cars, and how the US claimed EU had a larger tariff than the US, while the numbers actually showed the US imposed a bigger tariff on average due to the trick of calling some cars "…

IIRC, this blatant miscategorization of vehicles is what ultimately killed the Mini Clubman Panel van from being a possible thing in the United States (in addition to it being a supremely weird vehicle.)

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#84
post #28

US has a trade deficit with France. So potentially there is more to loose for France in case of a trade war: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4279.html And generally speaking the US has a trade deficit with Europe: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/europe... My understanding of the economic system between the US and the world is that other countries support the US dollar by using it f…

Not sure I agree with the analysis, at least on France. France's top exports to the US are aircraft parts and beverages (wine). Since the US needs those parts to export the (assembled) planes, I think the aircraft lobby (e.g. Boeing) will press hard to prevent a tariff here because it'd raise rates across the board, so that leaves wine: My hunch is even a 100% tariff on wine is unlikely to dissuade anyone from purcha…

I'm not familiar enough with the US but I don't think you'd find any French wine there.

From my experience in the UK, none of the French wines I could find in supermarkets exist in France. They appear to be specifically made for export and they are priced double or triple what a comparable bottle would be sold in France.

Given the US is a hell further than the UK, that's probably even worse, stranger wines and more pricey.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#85
post #44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree with the analysis, at least on France. France's top exports to the US are aircraft parts and beverages (wine). Since the US needs those parts to export the (assembled) planes, I think the aircraft lobby (e.g. Boeing) will press hard to prevent a tariff here because it'd raise rates across the board, so that leaves wine: My hunch is even a 100% tariff on wine is unlikely to dissuade anyone from purcha…

Lol at 'American wine is better'. It sure feels nice to pay $17 for a much-touted fancy bottle that turns out to be meh at best when in the States. Meanwhile you could just pick anything at random for like 3€ in any French or Italian grocery store and still get something decent. I probably didn't try everything the land of the free has to offer but this offside remark really makes me wonder what is considered good th…

By no means am I a wine connoisseur, but having just returned from France with a bevy of wine snobs who enjoy French wine (and were hoping for their success) -- this theory, as tested, did not hold true.

I purchased a handful of cheapo bottles (in the 3-8 euro range) from Franprix as a surprise to my wine-loving friends, hid the bottles from them and prepared blind tastings for them, only to discover that they regarded even the best of them to be undrinkable.

Perhaps this is simply due to a discrepancy between French and American palates? Perhaps Franprix is a bad place to buy wines? Perhaps a lot of things, but the notion that any $3 wine in France is universally regarded as 'decent' is not one I can vouch for.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#86
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this precision. Knowing this detail about aircraft parts seems to change the dynamic though. I have to disagree with one point though: “American wine is better than French wine....” (gulp!).

A certain amount of that is certainly tongue-in-cheek. I think if you compare a $20 wine in California to a €10 wine you buy somewhere along the Garonne, you're probably going to enjoy the French wine more. But we're talking about what changes buying-behaviour, and it's important to consider that as a savvy shopper in the US you can go into a wine shop and buy everything under $20, and you'll find local wins. That's…

For reference, French wine in France can be had for 3 or 4 euros a 75 cl bottle.

That's for good wine. There are cheaper wines available of course.

If you're saying $20, you must be talking about a 6 pack ;)

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#87
post #26

> Countries including France and the UK have accused firms of routing some profits through low-tax EU member states such as Ireland and Luxembourg. This seems to be the problem. The EU laws have allowed these companies to avoid taxes. Small countries just next to France (Luxembourg) are able to help these companies. But France will not go against these countries and instead try to handle things through taxes. I don't…

>>> buy shares in US companies

That is not quite correct actually.

You have to pay US taxes on US shares, doesn't matter where you are. They can be quite high, something like 30% of yearly profit. Then you have to pay local taxes too, that can be significant as well.

This makes US shares non viable for most Europeans. The double taxation makes them worthless.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#88
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have different pressure means on France now, like what they did about Alstom which is a strategic company for France (they produce essential elements about nuclear plants, nuclear submarines for example) now in the US hand through General Electric.

Correct me if I'm wrong but GE bought the energy/grid part of the company, not the infrastructure/transportation part.

The turbines production is now under GE

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#89
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A certain amount of that is certainly tongue-in-cheek. I think if you compare a $20 wine in California to a €10 wine you buy somewhere along the Garonne, you're probably going to enjoy the French wine more. But we're talking about what changes buying-behaviour, and it's important to consider that as a savvy shopper in the US you can go into a wine shop and buy everything under $20, and you'll find local wins. That's…

For reference, French wine in France can be had for 3 or 4 euros a 75 cl bottle. That's for good wine. There are cheaper wines available of course. If you're saying $20, you must be talking about a 6 pack ;)

> For reference, French wine in France can be had for 3 or 4 euros a 75 cl bottle.

This legend about french cheap wine is getting better and better everytime I hear it. 3-4€ is the low price for wine in a bottle. Some are decent, some are utter shit. But that's not "for good wine". That's entry level, which sometimes is decent.

I know some of the export wine is cooking-grade shit and people don't know the difference. But for people versed in wine in the US, the €3-4 bottles aren't going to cut it.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you tax an industry if said industry is majoritarily composed of US companies without it being flagged as discriminatory ? If we look at it the other way it would mean US companies have a free pass.

So... Spotify and Microsoft are one single industry? That's an interesting definition, buddy. And don;t forget that only the French sourced revenue is taxed.

Might not be the same industry per say but the sources of revenue overlap. Facebook and Amazon are obviously different services, they both make insane amount of money through ads, most of which escape taxes.

The law is directed to companies fitting these criteria:

- advertisement (Alibaba, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, Google, Groupon, Rakuten, Schibsted, Wish, Zalando.)

- sale of personal data (Amadeus, Axel Springer, Booking, Expedia, Match.com, Randstad, Recruit, Sabre, Travelport Worldwide, Tripadvisor, Uber.)

- intermediary platforms (Amazon, Criteo, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, Verizon)

Don't forget that most of these companies abuse the system to avoid paying tax in most EU countries, for example airbnb paid something like 70k of tax in 2015 in France (a top google engineer would pay more tax than the whole airbnb business), because the only french based airbnb entity was a sub company which was used as an intermediary between France and Ireland. Of course it's in their interest/right to use as many loopholes as they legally can, but I don't see why France wouldn't update their tax laws to close of few of these loopholes and accommodate these new business model / business practices.

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