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A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

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Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#281

Post by wool_gather »

kd5bjo wrote: post #238
lacampbell wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pet armchair theory is because driving a car is the one time a lot of human beings feel powerful. Where I live (provincial New Zealand) car traffic is slowed down just as much by tractors moving from farm to farm as it is by cyclists. Yet I never hear people tell me their elaborate fantasies about murdering tractor drivers. Why? Because it's not a realistic fantasy - the tractors are bigger than them. If you work…

Once you manage to overtake a tractor once, it doesn’t ever re-overtake you and make you do that work again. On sections of road with large amounts of traffic and stoplights, I’ve had to wait behind and overtake the same bicycle 5 times before I finally got far enough ahead. Most bicycle encounters are non-issues, but it’s these extended ones where it seems to the driver that they’ll never be done with this one parti…

I sympathize with this. And I, as a biker, don't really like being passed repeatedly either. But there are few good options: stopping in the bike lane but behind you defeats the purpose of the separate lane; I can join the car lane, and sometimes do if the flow is indeed slow enough, but then I risk being in the way if things do start moving faster, and/or pissing off a different driver who wonders why I'm not in my own lane, even though the average speed ends up being the same.

I'd suggest that the driver that is repeatedly getting ahead and then finding herself waiting at a stoplight might try driving slower between the lights, but that depends on the road conditions, and whether the lights are actually correctly timed. And on short blocks it risks causing jams. There's not really any way to apportion blame: it's a situation where it's hard for any of us to win. Maybe we just have to try to relax and get along as best we can.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#282

Post by rayiner »

Lio wrote: post #277
rayiner wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don’t. Even a folding ebike wouldn’t work if everyone brought them on the DC metro or NYC Subway. It’s packed shoulder to shoulder already.

Hold on, metro/subway capacity isn't the issue being addressed by the parent comment. You raised the problem of metro stations being further than a walkable distance on either end of the commute. If a subway or train service is at standing room only capacity right now even before you help new people to get to it then it's kind of a moot point anyway; you need more capacity before you can add more people.

The economics of train routes are dictated by how many paying customers you can move per hour. If everyone carried a portable bike, you would increase the potential user base of the routes, but decrease the customers/hour. (When trains are near full, and to be economically viable, they need to be, loading/unloading becomes a major bottleneck and everyone carting around a portable bike would really slow that down.) Even if you build new routes for those people, the amortized cost per user you can fit in the train is going to go way up.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#283

Post by wool_gather »

wozniacki wrote: post #188
lacampbell wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pet armchair theory is because driving a car is the one time a lot of human beings feel powerful. Where I live (provincial New Zealand) car traffic is slowed down just as much by tractors moving from farm to farm as it is by cyclists. Yet I never hear people tell me their elaborate fantasies about murdering tractor drivers. Why? Because it's not a realistic fantasy - the tractors are bigger than them. If you work…

I beg to differ. The problem-cyclists everyone has at one time or the other, encountered have this air of entitlement - not dissimilar to Prius drivers who are known to be some of the worst drivers on the road [1][2] - that their chosen mode of conveyance is morally superior to other modes and so they're owed certain privileges like being not held to the same degree of responsibility for flouting traffic rules. [1] T…

Please take off your selection bias glasses and start observing the behavior of all motorists through the same lens that you use to view cyclists. I think you will find that the proportion of bad behavior is not meaningfully different.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#284

Post by rayiner »

lmm wrote: post #265
rayiner wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America needs more transit everywhere, and maybe more importantly, we need to dissolve the notion that mass transit is not just how low-income people solve transportation. Transit is completely impractical in almost all the places where most Americans live and work. We’re talking about a commute that starts in a suburban cul-de-sac and ends in a suburban office park. Where would you put the transit lines? There is…

> Transit is completely impractical in almost all the places where most Americans live and work. We’re talking about a commute that starts in a suburban cul-de-sac and ends in a suburban office park. Where would you put the transit lines? Again, chicken and egg. You need density to get to a point where non-car commutes are practical, and you won't get that as long as you build car-first. It wouldn't be practical to t…

> Again, chicken and egg. You need density to get to a point where non-car commutes are practical, and you won't get that as long as you build car-first.

The simple fact that you're missing is that the country is already built.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#285

Post by wool_gather »

jakecopp wrote: post #218
vonmoltke wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take the bike on the bus You make that sound so simple. There's no way I could bring a bike on the bus or train I use to get to work.

Or just buy a $50 bike second hand and park it at the end of the bus route!

A cheapo bike is not likely to be something that you want to use (and rely on) for your daily commute, though.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#286

Post by wool_gather »

tastygreenapple wrote: post #192
gbrown wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly suggest that you dig deep and examine whether your opinion has more to do with the anger and frustration you experience while driving than objective fact, or any measureable harm you receive.

I don't own a car. I just call it like I see it, I don't think cars are great but bicycles seriously randomize the road, it's beyond stupid that 4000 lb cars driven by people who don't even operate the vehicle that well 'share' the road with 10-30 lb bicycles.

> it's beyond stupid that 4000 lb cars driven by people who don't even operate the vehicle

I think we can just stop the sentence right there, before we even discuss other users of the road.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#287

Post by Lio »

rayiner wrote: post #282
Lio wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold on, metro/subway capacity isn't the issue being addressed by the parent comment. You raised the problem of metro stations being further than a walkable distance on either end of the commute. If a subway or train service is at standing room only capacity right now even before you help new people to get to it then it's kind of a moot point anyway; you need more capacity before you can add more people.

The economics of train routes are dictated by how many paying customers you can move per hour. If everyone carried a portable bike, you would increase the potential user base of the routes, but decrease the customers/hour. (When trains are near full, and to be economically viable, they need to be, loading/unloading becomes a major bottleneck and everyone carting around a portable bike would really slow that down.) Ev…

Who said anything about everyone using a foldable bike (all bikes are portable)?

Your first argument was that people couldn’t use public transport because of the last mile issue. That only affects a subset of passengers and is answered by folding bikes.

Your second argument is that it would impossible to operate a subway if passengers were allowed to bring a second cabin sized carry on bag on (that’s roughly how big a folded Brompton is).

Well there’s already plenty of examples where operators are already doing this successfully.

The London Underground for example operates just fine allowing folding bikes to be taken on at all times of the day.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#288

Post by kd5bjo »

wool_gather wrote: post #281
kd5bjo wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you manage to overtake a tractor once, it doesn’t ever re-overtake you and make you do that work again. On sections of road with large amounts of traffic and stoplights, I’ve had to wait behind and overtake the same bicycle 5 times before I finally got far enough ahead. Most bicycle encounters are non-issues, but it’s these extended ones where it seems to the driver that they’ll never be done with this one parti…

I sympathize with this. And I, as a biker, don't really like being passed repeatedly either. But there are few good options: stopping in the bike lane but behind you defeats the purpose of the separate lane; I can join the car lane, and sometimes do if the flow is indeed slow enough, but then I risk being in the way if things do start moving faster, and/or pissing off a different driver who wonders why I'm not in my…

If there’s a real bike lane, the overtaking shouldn’t be a problem as it should be safe for cars to pass in their own lane without needing to take any of the next lane over. Unfortunately, many “bike lanes” are too narrow and too poorly maintained and filled with parked cars. Then there’s the cyclists that think it’s appropriate to ride on the divider between the bike lane and the car lanes instead of in the lane itself.

>Maybe we just have to try and relax and get along as best we can.

That seems like the best plan, certainly. Once everybody can see each other as people instead of the enemy, there might be some chance of getting the infrastructure fixed.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#289

Post by 0max »

kd5bjo wrote: post #288
wool_gather wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with this. And I, as a biker, don't really like being passed repeatedly either. But there are few good options: stopping in the bike lane but behind you defeats the purpose of the separate lane; I can join the car lane, and sometimes do if the flow is indeed slow enough, but then I risk being in the way if things do start moving faster, and/or pissing off a different driver who wonders why I'm not in my…

If there’s a real bike lane, the overtaking shouldn’t be a problem as it should be safe for cars to pass in their own lane without needing to take any of the next lane over. Unfortunately, many “bike lanes” are too narrow and too poorly maintained and filled with parked cars. Then there’s the cyclists that think it’s appropriate to ride on the divider between the bike lane and the car lanes instead of in the lane its…

>Then there’s the cyclists that think it’s appropriate to ride on the divider between the bike lane and the car lanes instead of in the lane itself.

People don't want to get doored. That's the main reason why I do this and deem this necessary. There are well traveled bike lanes out where where you do need to ride on the margin of the lane because it wasn't built parking protected and there was no space buffer set aside for car doors.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#290

Post by laingc »

briga wrote: post #185
laingc wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t directly address your point, but a particular cycleway in my city (Wellington, NZ) has unquestionably put several small businesses out of business, and is well on its way to killing a previously thriving village centre. As a personal disclaimer, I lived in Europe for years, where my primary means of transport was a bicycle, and after careful consideration over many years I am firmly in favour of personal…

It's interesting that you say the cycleway unquestionably put small businesses out of business--why do you think that? In North America small businesses and town centres are generally under threat from big shopping centres and the way large highways that literally split communities in half. After seeing how smoothly dense cities in the Netherlands can function with advanced bicycle infrastructure I'm convinced that b…

Well that’s not what I think, it’s a matter of public record and is widely known here.

The city council had to remove parking from in front of shops in order to put the cycleway in. No parks means no customers.

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