Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 164 posts

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#131

Post by dumbass123 »

jasonhansel wrote: post #110

My concern about Libra is that it suggests that Facebook is trying to control things that have normally been the purview of the government. This is concerning in the long run because Facebook is not run democratically. Any institution performing government-like functions should be at least as accountable as the government itself.

Your concern makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, history has shown that "democratically" controlled currencies are a pretty terrible idea. That's why the ECB, Fed, Bank of Canada, etc. etc. all make a point of being independent of the rest of the government.

Second of all, it IS accountable to far more than just "rich people". There's many times of democracies... and one way of breaking it down is democracy by vote vs. democracy by exit. The US Government is a democracy by vote. Starbucks is a democracy by exit. You have no control over how Starbucks makes their coffee, but if you don't like it...then you can just go across the street to another coffee shop. That way, Starbucks is extremely accountable to their customers...because if they stop meeting customer demand then they'll go out of business. I'd personally argue Starbucks operates much more efficiently than the US Government (but that's a separate issue). Libra works the same way. Right now, you're forced to use the US Dollar to pay. With Libra, you're under no such compulsion. If you don't like the way Libra is being operated...use some other currency to do your transactions. This will cause less money to be in Libra reserves... resulting in less money to Libra shareholders... and on and on. Therefore, Libra IS democratically accountable.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#132

Post by conanbatt »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #126
conanbatt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an independent currency: if it changes rules in a way users dont accept it would stop being used. Lets not confound the capacity to build a token with the capacity to levy taxes. The latter is the scary one. The former is just playing with casino chips and airline miles.

One of the ways that fiat currencies are accepted by the public is that you can use them to pay taxes so even if no one wants to accept them you can be sure that the issuing government will accept it as payment for taxes and government services. So people are assured that at worst there is a place where it can be used. Once FB creates services that people want and then FB decides that they will only accept its curren…

This presents no conflict with a healthy and free society.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#133

Post by damnyou »

buboard wrote: post #123
damnyou wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assert with exactly as much evidence as you (zero) that it is the extraordinary claim. Show me a so-called "decentralized" coin that is designed to not just be dominated by a handful of miners. It's a natural consequence of proof of work, isn't it? Large-scale miners will always be able to buy electricity for cheaper than your average person.

some currencies have different consensus protocol, e.g. stellar. others are actively fighting it, e.g. monero. and even in the case of a takeover, forks are possible , ensuring decentralization it's not just decentralization, it's competing decentralized currencies in a free market.

Well, this sort of meta-decentralization applies to all currencies including Libra.

I think you can either say that no currencies are decentralized or that all currencies are. In practice any currency gives up some axes of decentralization.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#134

Post by im_down_w_otp »

elliekelly wrote: post #119
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insofar as this rhetorical framework is concerned, they're actually sanctioned, not unsanctioned. Banks and credit issuing institutions are heavily regulated and have a variety of criteria that must be met to legally operate in that capacity.

> Banks and credit issuing institutions are heavily regulated and have a variety of criteria that must be met to legally operate in that capacity. Except the banks and other regulated financial institutions involved in Libra aren’t the entities that will be issuing Libra coin. A separate (I believe non-profit) entity, Libra, is. The financial institutions have “donated” $5 million and will have the ability to appoint…

What are you objecting to exactly?

As near as I can tell, we're in agreement about the situation.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#135

Post by jasonhansel »

dumbass123 wrote: post #131
jasonhansel wrote: post #110

My concern about Libra is that it suggests that Facebook is trying to control things that have normally been the purview of the government. This is concerning in the long run because Facebook is not run democratically. Any institution performing government-like functions should be at least as accountable as the government itself.

Your concern makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, history has shown that "democratically" controlled currencies are a pretty terrible idea. That's why the ECB, Fed, Bank of Canada, etc. etc. all make a point of being independent of the rest of the government. Second of all, it IS accountable to far more than just "rich people". There's many times of democracies... and one way of breaking it down is democracy by v…

A "democracy by exit" is not a kind of democracy. There are plenty of horribly undemocratic countries where people don't need exit visas to leave.

Likewise, when corporations become too powerful and monopolistic, they are technically "democracies by exit." But, much like some countries, they are not democratic in the important sense.

When such companies exercise too much power, most ordinary people do not have any control over the forces that most significantly impact their lives. And it is this sort of distributed control which makes a system democratic or undemocratic.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#138

Post by benj111 »

gridlockd wrote: post #89
benj111 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know a bond is a loan? Why is a Libra loan to the government different to a fractional reserve loan of any sort?

A government bond issued in the countries own currency has no risk of default and is highly liquid. An ordinary loan such as a mortgage has poor liquidity and a high risk of default in case of turmoil.

"A government bond issued in the countries own currency has no risk of default"

That is very far from correct.

And I still don't think the risk differential is enough to make them 2 different things.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#139

Post by dumbass123 »

jasonhansel wrote: post #135
dumbass123 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your concern makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, history has shown that "democratically" controlled currencies are a pretty terrible idea. That's why the ECB, Fed, Bank of Canada, etc. etc. all make a point of being independent of the rest of the government. Second of all, it IS accountable to far more than just "rich people". There's many times of democracies... and one way of breaking it down is democracy by v…

A "democracy by exit" is not a kind of democracy. There are plenty of horribly undemocratic countries where people don't need exit visas to leave. Likewise, when corporations become too powerful and monopolistic, they are technically "democracies by exit." But, much like some countries, they are not democratic in the important sense. When such companies exercise too much power, most ordinary people do not have any co…

> There are plenty of horribly undemocratic countries where people don't need exit visas to leave

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this. Just because you don't need an exit visa to leave doesn't mean other countries will just take you in.... That's why you have refugee crises.

You're going off on a completely different tangent. When corporations become too powerful and monopolistic then it's the government's job to break them up and preserve competition.

We're specifically talking about Libra right now. Libra will have competition with the US Dollar. Unless you're suggesting Libra will become so powerful as to replace the US Dollar...then your point is completely invalid. Additionally, if Libra is extremely successful, you can almost certainly bet that other companies will come out with their own digital currency.

Re: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Has ‘Serious Concerns’ with Facebook Libra Proposal

#140

Post by buboard »

damnyou wrote: post #133
buboard wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some currencies have different consensus protocol, e.g. stellar. others are actively fighting it, e.g. monero. and even in the case of a takeover, forks are possible , ensuring decentralization it's not just decentralization, it's competing decentralized currencies in a free market.

Well, this sort of meta-decentralization applies to all currencies including Libra. I think you can either say that no currencies are decentralized or that all currencies are. In practice any currency gives up some axes of decentralization.

> applies to all currencies including Libra.

Yes, i m positive on Libra as long as it is possible to exchange it for any other crypto. I 'm afraid it's not going to be the case.

Post reply on HN