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France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

reuters.com

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Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#561

Post by somecontext »

TylerE wrote: post #506
somecontext wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some context in case anyone is curious: putting together information from various websites suggests that the following is the oldest plane in commercial service today. https://m.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/737/5Y-CGV-Zone-... It is a Boeing 737-200 and it has been in service for 43.7 years.

Hardly. There are still DC-3's in commercial operation, and production of those ended in 1942. http://www.buffaloairways.com/ is one operator.

It appears you are correct in this regard and the websites I used are not.

Are there any such planes used for regular scheduled (passenger) airline services? It appears to me that Buffalo Airways is charter and cargo only.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#562

Post by seanmcdirmid »

magduf wrote: post #554
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convenience fees are just immoral. I wonder if this means flying out of the French side of Geneva airport would incur the fee while the Swiss side would not? (Edit, it seems like the French side no longer exists after Switzerland entered the Schengen).

I wonder: does Ticketmaster not make any profit at all on the ticket sale itself (does all that go to the act), and is the "convenience fee" actually their profit? Or is there profit built into the ticket price itself, and the convenience fee just additional profit? If it's the former, it's still lousy because they're advertising lower prices than what the actual cost is. But even so, it's still not much different fr…

The convenience fee is backdoor extra money for the event provider (eg band), they split the money with ticket master. Ticket master plays the bad guy (everyone can hate them since they are a monopoly) so the band doesn’t look evil themselves.

Convenience fees are basically dark business method patterns.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#563

Post by seanmcdirmid »

littlestymaar wrote: post #544
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was transiting in Paris from Lausanne to Lyon, there was no metro connection between the Gares. That was 2006, things could be different now.

I'm puzzled: the Lausanne-Paris arrives in _Gare de Lyon_, which is also the station where you take the train to Lyon. Then on a Lausanne-Lyon via Paris you wouldn't even need to change stations. I have and idea of what could have happened though: maybe you took a cheaper train which doesn't arrives or leaves in Paris itself, but in a train station in suburbs (Marne la vallée, Massy Palaiseau and Roissy Charles de Ga…

I mistyped, I meant Nantes, not Lyon. I think the train did arrive at gare Lyon and we had to bus transfer to another station.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#564

Post by seanmcdirmid »

schoen wrote: post #509
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I meant Nantes, not Lyon. Come to think of it, I’ve never been to Lyon, not sure why I got those two cities mixed up. It wouldn’t make sense to go to Paris just to go to Lyon. :)

Aha! According to Google Maps, there are some options for making this journey today that will use the Paris Metro, but you would still have to change metro lines en route between Gare de Lyon and Gare Montparnasse (the "one change" that littlestymaar mentioned) It's possible that these options already existed in 2006 but were complicated or inconvenient enough that no one or no web site suggested them to you.

The bus is a much quicker direct transfer, a metro transfer isn’t that viable.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#565

Post by chronolitus »

anticensor wrote: post #438
hokkos wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tax fuel burned inside european airspace instead of fuel at rest once arrived at the airport. Also : >EU countries can end the decades-long exemption and tax kerosene on flights between them, according to legal experts. This could either be done at EU level through a series of bilateral agreements or by agreement between individual countries, the independent legal analysis for green NGO federation Transport &…

> You can tax fuel burned inside european airspace instead of fuel at rest once arrived at the airport. That idea would work in trains; planes do not have tracks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#566

Post by novaRom »

kumoflow wrote: post #430
novaRom wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There's no alternative to burning fuel by energy density on an airline This initiative makes trains more competitive. Trains are greener and often quicker especially for intra-european continental routes.

Greener ok, but quicker? Even if you account for the security issues, I never had a plane in Europe being quicker than the plane (with all the overhead). In most cases is double or triple the time (for shorter distances) or close to impossible for longer ones.

Flight:

1) You have to appear at least 1.5 hour before departure (luggage drop, security checks)

2) You have to drive to an airport and back, might take hours in some cases unless you live close enough (in a big city), but it will usually take not less than 30-50 mins one way

3) It takes up to 30 minutes to get luggage after landing

Rail:

a) Train stations are in the centers of cities; max 10-15 mins by subway or bus/tram; high-speed trains also stop in many mid-size cities/towns

b) You can appear just at departure time

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#567

Post by anticensor »

chronolitus wrote: post #565
anticensor wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can tax fuel burned inside european airspace instead of fuel at rest once arrived at the airport. That idea would work in trains; planes do not have tracks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/

It tracks where the plane is, not where the fuel is burned. A few metres of difference, significant for border enforcement.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#569

Post by anoncake »

benj111 wrote: post #404
anoncake wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear trains sound pointless. Unlike ships, you can power trains with catenaries.

Ahem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_boat

That's awesome, thanks. But it's also a boat, not a ship ;)

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#570

Post by JAlexoid »

wayoutthere wrote: post #367
dewey wrote: post #167

Finally. It's really frustrating to see how heavily subsidized airlines, plane fuel and airports are and how big of a tax breaks they get when they come to a city. At the same time people are shamed for buying salad in a plastic bag when the big lever is somewhere completely different. Had the same thought yesterday when I saw: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1148317244893597696

The whole passenger air travel industry (airlines, aircraft manufacturers, airports, etc) is subsidized because they’re not profitable on their own. But a robust and affordable air travel network is a capability the business world needs to operate our economy. Boeing and Airbus are two of the most heavily subsidized companies in the world, and the airlines themselves aren’t far behind. They’re both high-risk, low-mar…

Airliner manufacturing isn't low margin, by far. Airbus reported EBIT €5.8bn on €64bn revenues for 2018. 9% profitability is pretty good for durable goods company. Airlines aren't all exactly on paper thin margins. Southwest operates at about 15% margin

Apple, the posterchild of high margins, reported profits of $14bn on $62bn revenues for Q4 2018... that's 22%. If you want low margins, look at retailers.

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