A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles • Hacker News Board

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#231

Post by kqr » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #223

steelframe wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a long time cycle commuter relucantly turned auto-commuter. I just made that transition last month after getting hit by someone driving a truck while I was on my way to the bike trail. In the report the police lied and said I changed lanes by crossing a broken white line. The motorist and I were in the same lane, and there isn't even a broken white line on the road. If I can't safely make it just half mile to t…

I ask this out of genuine curiosity, and with respect. I am a guy who has had several unpleasant dealings with police. But what could they gain by lying in their report?

They get to put it in the pile of completed cases and not have to start a long process of figuring out what's what. I have had similar experiences.

One time I even included in the report the full photo ID of the driver, the name and phone number of a witness, and I got a letter back saying "We're not investigating this case further for two reasons: 1. lack of evidence, 2. not knowing whether there's a traffic camera in the area." I called the witness and they had never been contacted by the police. And why is it ever a reason that they don't know whether there's a traffic camera in the area? Can't they at least just check that first and then say that there is no traffic camera in the area??

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#232

Post by bobthepanda » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #228

vonmoltke wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take the bike on the bus You make that sound so simple. There's no way I could bring a bike on the bus or train I use to get to work.

That is a solved problem. The only reason you can’t bring your bike on the bus/train is because of a policy that prevents your local transit system from investing in the necessary equipment. Why are they enacting this policy I don’t know. But I think it has to do with the larger problem of city transportation policies that generally cater only to private car users at the expense of every other forms of transportation…

The bike rack on the bus is helpful but they have limited capacity. A local bus route where I used to live would often pass up cyclists because the rack in front was already full.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#233

Post by Lio » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:28 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #183

wutbrodo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit handles long distances rather neatly, but there's a chicken-and-egg issue where (support for) its development is in part stymied by the last-mile problem: covering 20 miles rapidly isn't useful if you have no good options for the last 2. Biking fills a very important slot in a healthy transit infrastructure. Unfortunately, we're pretty horrible as a society at reasoning about issues that involve more t…

The car bloc is 95% of the population and is completely rational. It makes no sense to take entire lanes out of service for the tiny minority of people who can integrate biking into their daily commute. And for most people in the US, public transit is not an option because you have a last mile problem at both the starting point and ending point. Consider, as an ironic example, the new development around DC’s New Carr…

Small folding e-bikes solve that “last mile” problem for lots of people.

They allow people to quickly reach mass transit hubs when none are near by, fold up and hop on. What’s missing is normalisation and support from transit providers.

I’d add, that it would be nice if Google/Apple would add multi-mode transit routing for maps so that you could tell when it’s quicker to cycle direct and when it’s quicker to cycle to a station and catch a train or bus.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#234

Post by Lio » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:34 AM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #167

runarberg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are buses, trains, etc. That can take you most of the way. It is super handy to be able to bike to a well served direct bus route, take the bike on the bus, and bike to the destination without having to have to change from/to an underserved indirect lane.

> take the bike on the bus You make that sound so simple. There's no way I could bring a bike on the bus or train I use to get to work.

Why not?

A fold up https://us.brompton.com/ is a very good bike.

They make an e-bike version if you’re not a strong cyclist and if you put it in a bag, then it’s just a bag shaped thing you are taking with you.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#235

Post by Lio » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

egil wrote: post #224

CapricornNoble wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan the cyclists ride on the sidewalk, and use little bells that the entire pedestrian population is conditioned to understand means "move over please, I'm coming through". I've found bike usage surprisingly high in Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto compared to my experience living in/near numerous US cities (Philadelphia, Miami, St. Louis, to name a few). Why the emphasis on bike lanes in US cities? Putting unarmored peo…

The vietnamese way aligns nicely with nature. It might not matter much if you are legally right if you get maimed in a traffic accident.

It seems that transport is the only area of society where we put with “might is right” over leg due legal process.

Stopping people from killing or maiming with a larger vehicle those we take a momentary dislike to is one reason why presumed liability for drivers should be a thing everywhere.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#236

Post by kd5bjo » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #168

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that the article implies cyclists are breaking the rules, but then they list behaviors that are legal in most places and make sense: > overtaking queues of cars, moving at well below the speed limit or undertaking on the inside. It also blames bikes for both moving too fast and too slow, and ignores that drivers'd be way more pissed if bikes took the entire lane (like they're entitled to in most places).

The article is explaining why many drivers dislike cyclists. This accurately describes some of the complaints I've heard from non-cyclists: Then along come cyclists, innocently following what they see are the rules of the road, but doing things that drivers aren't allowed to: overtaking queues of cars, moving at well below the speed limit or undertaking on the inside. Whether or not the cyclists are actually followin…

The reason these behaviors are frustrating to drivers is that bicycles are hard to overtake. They’re unpredictable and fragile compared to a car, and so the driver has to give them a wide berth, often having to wait behind them for a long time until there’s a break in oncoming traffic to get around them.

That’s not so much of a problem, as that’s the same with every slow-moving vehicle. Bicycles, however, are the only ones that will re-overtake while the car is standing in a queue, forcing the driver to do all of that work again instead of just relaxing into the normal flow of traffic.

When they overtake a standing queue, Bicyclists, from the point of view of drivers, are acting against the common interest of smoothly flowing traffic for their own gain and taking advantage of a temporary situation to screw up the natural order of faster vehicles at the front of the line and slower ones at the back.

The obvious solution here is separate infrastructure for cars and bicycles as they have such different acceleration profiles that there will inevitably be problems putting them in the same space. But as long as bicyclists don’t extend the common courtesy of remaining overtaken in shared situations, they will be viewed as more worthy of punishment than appeasement.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#237

Post by Fnoord » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 8:00 AM UTC

bikeshaving wrote: post #110

Johnny555 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think something like this would be that successful in the USA - it's not lack of parking that keeps most people from riding, it's lack of protected bike lanes (or other "safe" routes), and lack of cultural acceptance of biking. Plus, open, street parking isn't that safe in a lot of cities, if I could ask for some specific parking infrastructure, I'd ask for lockable bike lockers... though I'd rather see bike…

The lack of protected bike lanes is a direct consequence of the policy of providing free overnight car storage on both sides of every residential/commercial street. The days of “share the road” are over: cycling advocates need to advocate for 1/2 street parking on every street if we actually want change, because this is a zero-sum game where only one side continues to murder and maim the other because they think they…

Hi, I am from The Netherlands. Based on my experience in my country I have the following to add.

The main issue you have is a chicken egg (network effect esque) lack of bicycle drivers.

Once there are enough you can defend their rights (safety and accessibility) easier. Safety is first for bicyclists in The Netherlands. Hence no helm necessary. E-bike go pretty fast though and with elder people preferring these, amount of bikes may increase.

There are several solutions to this problem you described each with their drawbacks.

You can speed limit. For example to 30 km/hour. Aldo increases safety for playing kids.

You can disallow parking. Variations are one side or both sides, time based parking allowed (e.g. at night OK), allowed to stop with engine running, and possibly others.

You can repurpose the road to a one way street. There are two variations on this: with allowing bicycles one way and with allowing bicycles two way. Another variation is not allowing bicycles at all but I cover that later.

You can broaden the road. Not always viable, especially in city, but you be able to combine it with repurposing the housing.

You can make the road for bicyclists only. Do this too much and car drivers will complain about accessibility.

You can disallow cars in your city with too high Co2 emissions.

You can disallow bicycles. Useful at highways, near highways, or at choke points.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#238

Post by kd5bjo » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 8:03 AM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #181

Johnny555 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temporarily repurposing street parking is a great tactic to get people to realize how much public space is given to 1 person which could serve many I think all it would do is enrage drivers that their parking space is being taken up by cyclists. To think that they'd finally recognize how much space is taken up by cars assumes that drivers are looking at this rationally. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130212-why-yo…

My pet armchair theory is because driving a car is the one time a lot of human beings feel powerful. Where I live (provincial New Zealand) car traffic is slowed down just as much by tractors moving from farm to farm as it is by cyclists. Yet I never hear people tell me their elaborate fantasies about murdering tractor drivers. Why? Because it's not a realistic fantasy - the tractors are bigger than them. If you work…

Once you manage to overtake a tractor once, it doesn’t ever re-overtake you and make you do that work again. On sections of road with large amounts of traffic and stoplights, I’ve had to wait behind and overtake the same bicycle 5 times before I finally got far enough ahead. Most bicycle encounters are non-issues, but it’s these extended ones where it seems to the driver that they’ll never be done with this one particular bicyclist that stick in the memory and cause long-term resentment.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#239

Post by skgoa » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #168

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that the article implies cyclists are breaking the rules, but then they list behaviors that are legal in most places and make sense: > overtaking queues of cars, moving at well below the speed limit or undertaking on the inside. It also blames bikes for both moving too fast and too slow, and ignores that drivers'd be way more pissed if bikes took the entire lane (like they're entitled to in most places).

The article is explaining why many drivers dislike cyclists. This accurately describes some of the complaints I've heard from non-cyclists: Then along come cyclists, innocently following what they see are the rules of the road, but doing things that drivers aren't allowed to: overtaking queues of cars, moving at well below the speed limit or undertaking on the inside. Whether or not the cyclists are actually followin…

Some car drivers will even block bikes (both the motorized and pedal-poweered kind) from lane splitting, even in hurisdictions where it is legal.

Re: A “bike platform” that temporarily swaps one car parking space for ten bicycles

#240

Post by tempestn » Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 8:51 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #221

wozniacki wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. The problem-cyclists everyone has at one time or the other, encountered have this air of entitlement - not dissimilar to Prius drivers who are known to be some of the worst drivers on the road [1][2] - that their chosen mode of conveyance is morally superior to other modes and so they're owed certain privileges like being not held to the same degree of responsibility for flouting traffic rules. [1] T…

Cycling is morally superior to driving a car alone as an able bodied person. Cars pollute a lot and they and their infrastructure take up a lot of valuable space in cities.

As someone who is concerned about climate change and enjoys cycling, I'm still going to have to strongly disagree with this one. There are plenty of reasons why one might choose to drive over bike; calling one strictly morally superior to the other is extreme. Morality isn't that simple.