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Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#311

Post by sudhirj »

scarface74 wrote: post #302
sudhirj wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, but even the control click will only allow you to open signed software. Unless you build the software yourself (I'm not sure how homebrew still works) you cannot run it if it's not been notarized by Apple. Firefox was broken on Catalina for a while, even though the main app was notarized. Some internal binary wasn't notarized, and no amount of control clicking would get Firefox to work until Mozilla notariz…

For users who know what they are doing: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unsigned-apps-catalyst-... sudo spctl --master-disable

The users who really know what they're doing are going to refuse to disable system integrity protection. I paid a shitload of money for the T2 chip, secure signed boots, a virus-free environment and complete peace of mind from malware. No way I'm turning that off on a work machine.

I have a Raspberry Pi for hacking, I'm happy to root the hobby computers, not the work ones.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#312

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

curt15 wrote: post #76
Deimorz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think disabling the enterprise certs was particularly moral, Facebook and Google were flagrantly violating the terms of the enterprise program. Apple also apparently didn't even notice (or didn't care) until articles about it started getting a lot of attention. Apple definitely does make some commendable decisions, but I think it's also important to distinguish between bravery and what Ben Thompson calls "Str…

Indeed a company's "morals" are better exposed when it has to make inconvenient choices.

For example between easily upgradeable environment-friendly product and a box of glued components with no-user replaceable parts so that they need to buy a new item in the line sooner.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#313

Post by sudhirj »

sudhirj wrote: post #311
scarface74 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For users who know what they are doing: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unsigned-apps-catalyst-... sudo spctl --master-disable

The users who really know what they're doing are going to refuse to disable system integrity protection. I paid a shitload of money for the T2 chip, secure signed boots, a virus-free environment and complete peace of mind from malware. No way I'm turning that off on a work machine. I have a Raspberry Pi for hacking, I'm happy to root the hobby computers, not the work ones.

That's why if find postings like this dangerous. If an author is asking someone to run a command, they really need to explain what the command does and what the tradeoffs are.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#314

Post by earenndil »

rawrmaan wrote: post #35

That's pretty epic. Apple continues to make big, brave moral gestures (like when they yanked Facebook and Google's enterprise certs earlier this year, or killed long-term tracking cookies in Safari overnight). Makes me happy to be a customer. Hope they keep enforcing their own rules and protecting their users' privacy and security in this fearless manner.

From what I hear from people in the ad business, safari is still 100% trackable even without those cookies; it's just a bit harder to set up.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#315

Post by rleigh »

pjmlp wrote: post #309
sschueller wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be the Mac books death. Many open source projects will not participate in this. If this kills brew you will also loose a lot of devs.

iPhone and iPad don't seem to have suffered from lack of open source projects. Neither do game consoles or the large population using Windows based systems. I never cared for brew on the occasional moments I get to use Apple computers, XCode and default tooling is more than enough. Which is like what the large majority of developers targeting Apple devices actually care about.

The MacBook is a general purpose computing platform. The iPhone and iPad are not. Locking down the Mac will make it unusable for many, many people. It will indeed be the death of the platform, as most devs abandon it entirely.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#316

Post by soheilpro »

arthurfm wrote: post #219
javagram wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Windows does? Control Panel “add and remove programs” usually works? There’s no equivalent on Mac. Yes, dragging the app to the trash is a thing but that leaves behind content in ~/Library/caches, ~/Library/Application Support, and ~/Library/Preferences . It’s been somewhat of an issue with Mac ever since they first put a hard drive on the original ones back in the 80s... Edit: I literally cleared several GB of…

> OmniDiskSweeper is great for finding this stuff. iTrash [1] is also worth mentioning. It uses the Levenshtein distance algorithm [2] to find all of the junk related to an app. [1] http://www.osxbytes.com [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance

I've been using AppCleaner [1] for years and it's awesome. And it's free.

https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#317

Post by microtonal »

Operyl wrote: post #310
nitrogen wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A package manager would typically have removed the web server, too.

Sure, the "package managers" on Linux, Windows, and macOS all behavior in pretty similar fashions. A manifest of files that the installer knew at time of install. That doesn't stop a program from installing anything else at run time, or even in the installer (since they can define what to remove in a lot of cases). This wasn't an "accident," it was purposely left behind with the intention of being used to onboard use…

And please, don't tell me "but Docker!" Docker, at present, isn't really usable with GUI applications yet.

But Flatpak! Flatpak applications can be sandboxed and you can install/remove applications as one unit.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#318

Post by smittywerben »

Izkata wrote: post #282
smittywerben wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not spyware, this was not something that was intended to be abused Do you have a source for that. It doesn’t peek around my computer a little and/or send back any telemetry? I’m being serious, I’d like to know. I had to install Zoom in school in 2014, I ended up uninstalling it the next week and reformatted after the quarter. I’m with Apple here. It’s shit insecure non-consenting software that wastes battery 9…

IIRC, part of the functionality included silent background updates from a domain that nearly expired, and was only renewed when pointed out to them during the discovery of this.

Thanks, that cuts through a lot of the fluff.

The part that freaks me out is you can’t uninstall it.

“The undocumented web server remained installed even if a user uninstalled Zoom.”

I’m not sure if this is common. Sony got caught with their XCP rootkit (I’m not sure if they called it this at the time) you had to fill out a “uninstall request” form on their site with your email and location[0]. I’m not sure if the uninstaller fixed the vulnerability.

So maybe a rootkit might describe this if the vulnerable webserver is privileged. In Sony’s case, the side effects were unintentional (though their history with DRM is egregious). I think Zoom is just polluted MVP in production.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20051104044919/http://cp.sonybmg...

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#319

Post by Operyl »

microtonal wrote: post #317
Operyl wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the "package managers" on Linux, Windows, and macOS all behavior in pretty similar fashions. A manifest of files that the installer knew at time of install. That doesn't stop a program from installing anything else at run time, or even in the installer (since they can define what to remove in a lot of cases). This wasn't an "accident," it was purposely left behind with the intention of being used to onboard use…

And please, don't tell me "but Docker!" Docker, at present, isn't really usable with GUI applications yet. But Flatpak! Flatpak applications can be sandboxed and you can install/remove applications as one unit.

Is Flatpak still open to the issues outlined at http://flatkill.org/?

If so, it doesn’t seem much better.

Re: Apple has pushed a silent Mac update to remove hidden Zoom web server

#320

Post by dymk »

Deimorz wrote: post #69
rawrmaan wrote: post #35

That's pretty epic. Apple continues to make big, brave moral gestures (like when they yanked Facebook and Google's enterprise certs earlier this year, or killed long-term tracking cookies in Safari overnight). Makes me happy to be a customer. Hope they keep enforcing their own rules and protecting their users' privacy and security in this fearless manner.

I don't think disabling the enterprise certs was particularly moral, Facebook and Google were flagrantly violating the terms of the enterprise program. Apple also apparently didn't even notice (or didn't care) until articles about it started getting a lot of attention. Apple definitely does make some commendable decisions, but I think it's also important to distinguish between bravery and what Ben Thompson calls "Str…

"Strategy Credits" were rebranded as "Virtue Signaling" circa 2017
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