Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations • Hacker News Board

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#301

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #95

I think the responses to this can be broken down into a 2x2 matrix: level of concern vs. understanding of technology. 1) Don't understand ML; not concerned - "I have nothing to hide." 2) Don't understand ML; concerned - "I bought this device and now people are spying on me!" 3) Understand ML; not concerned - "Of course, Google needs to label its training data." 4) Understand ML; concerned - "How can we train models/c…

Assuming categories 1 and 3 are sufficiently large (and I assume that is the case), this is easily resolved by allowing users to choose whether to donate their data for training or not.

If the training already only happens on a 1/500 sample, skewing the sample towards "people who don't care about their privacy" will probably not significantly impact the quality of the data.

I'm surprised this wasn't already the case, but hopefully the article will help the people responsible make better decisions in the trade-off between minimizing onboarding friction and respecting user's privacy in the future.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#302

Post by deftturtle » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 7:52 PM UTC

I unplugged my family’s Alexa, since they weren’t using it but left it on. They haven’t used it at all for months and haven’t plugged it back in. It sits on their shelf. I wonder if this is common, where families overestimate the usefulness of voice assistants and then rarely use them after a couple months.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#303

Post by prepend » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #95

I think the responses to this can be broken down into a 2x2 matrix: level of concern vs. understanding of technology. 1) Don't understand ML; not concerned - "I have nothing to hide." 2) Don't understand ML; concerned - "I bought this device and now people are spying on me!" 3) Understand ML; not concerned - "Of course, Google needs to label its training data." 4) Understand ML; concerned - "How can we train models/c…

There’s a different dimension that may or may not understand ML, but are cognizant that any data created will be viewed at least by the company that creates it.

I fall into that category as I have time, nor do I trust any evaluation methods, to determine if a company is using my data ethically. If I create data and store it something that’s not mine, then I only do that in situations where I’m comfortable with the owner doing anything they want with it.

I understand ML and know that Google has to at least use it for training. I’ve also worked on IT long enough that even in super tight controlled environments data are misused by administrators.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#304

Post by paganel » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

viklove wrote: post #291

paganel wrote: post #131

I grew up as a kid in a country ruled by Securitate [1], one of the few institutions that rivaled the East-German Stasi when it came to spying on its own citizens, and as such I'm very, very perplexed of why would anyone bring in a listening device in his/her own house out of his/her own volition. And those people even pay for the privilege of having their home-lives actively monitored and listened to almost all the…

Do you have a smartphone? Why would you bring that listening device (the smartphone) into your own house out of your own volition? Please explain, because I am very perplexed.

I do have a smartphone, and I also do know that by default my phone is not actively listening on me (if it matters I do not use Siri-like services and I don't intend to). This is not the case with all these Alexa-like devices, but correct me if I am wrong.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#305

Post by freehunter » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

alias_neo wrote: post #185

Someone1234 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And not to be anywhere near anyone else's listening devices. No assistant records all the time, not Google, Amazon, or Apple. They listen for the "Wake Word" onboard using more primitive (and lower power consumption) Speech Recognition and only utilize The Cloud after the "Wake Word" (or phase) is spoken. You can confirm this using Wireshark. You can view and listen to your recorded speech on the Google Account Das…

No, they don't, however, accidental activation is still highly likely. I've had other people's devices activate during conversations where I couldn't figure out which part of the sentence activated them, it just happens. "Ok, Go get..." "Ok, Good ..." "All except..." "Sir, I..." Then you have television shows and adverts that intentionally use language to activate these assistants. Usually the assistants are going to…

I use the phrase “are you serious?!” a lot when I am frustrated. Almost always it wakes up Siri on at least one of my iDevices. Which makes me say “are you serious?!” again and it just spirals from there.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#306

Post by deepgrave4 » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #159

gringoDan wrote: post #95

I think the responses to this can be broken down into a 2x2 matrix: level of concern vs. understanding of technology. 1) Don't understand ML; not concerned - "I have nothing to hide." 2) Don't understand ML; concerned - "I bought this device and now people are spying on me!" 3) Understand ML; not concerned - "Of course, Google needs to label its training data." 4) Understand ML; concerned - "How can we train models/c…

>To me, category 3 is the most dangerous. Tech workers have a responsibility not just understand the technologies that they work with, but also educate themselves on the societal implications of those technologies. And as others have pointed out, this extends beyond home speakers to any voice-enabled device in general. Yes I'm frequently amazed how many coworkers I have that are still completely plugged into Google,…

The very "experts" who are plugged in and implementing/promoting the IoT are themselves under a form of mass hypnosis. Look how hard they work! For what? Progress! Money! They are taught to obey. If they do not, there will be consequences.

We are entering an age of mass disinformation propagated by the controllers to obscure their agenda and remap people's minds. The only difference is that now our propaganda is 24/7 broadcasting from our pants pocket. They wish to destroy our ability to discern right from wrong, and they seem to be succeeding.

One can only hope that as a human species we can muster some shred of critical thought amidst this onslaught. Perhaps one day we can stand up and see things for what they are, because unfortunately, we are running out of time.

Words have power though. They can change minds and foment revolutions. Disaster is not the only way (and disasters almost always benefit the controllers). We can elevate ourselves through language; most everything we've ever known is codified in language. Never stop speaking your mind, especially to the blind, narrow-minded yes-men that surround you. They, too, can change.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#307

Post by cronix » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #95

I think the responses to this can be broken down into a 2x2 matrix: level of concern vs. understanding of technology. 1) Don't understand ML; not concerned - "I have nothing to hide." 2) Don't understand ML; concerned - "I bought this device and now people are spying on me!" 3) Understand ML; not concerned - "Of course, Google needs to label its training data." 4) Understand ML; concerned - "How can we train models/c…

I'm in the 5th category. 5) Understand ML; concerned - won't allow any of these things in my house period because they will always use them for things behind the scenes that they won't state. I don't care how well trained they are, or "ethical." Ethical... according to who, and at what time period in the future? Ethics change. The data they have on you won't. Look at all of the politicians and other people getting in trouble for things they said 15 years ago, which were generally more acceptable at the time but we've "progressed" since then. Who will be making decisions about you in the future based on last years data? Just don't give it to them.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#308

Post by skybrian » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

aflag wrote: post #298

skybrian wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the threat model for being enslaved by Google Home?

Everything you say counts towards your profile. It's the threat of social media framing or relationships, essentially.

I do't understand. What is "social media framing"?

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#309

Post by javagram » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #262

Ensorceled wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why it's unreasonable for customers to have assumed this is like every other product: they developed it with employees and voluteers before shipping. After all, the voice recognition in my Prius doesn't send recordings of my "call mom and dad mobile" back to Toyota and it certainly doesn't send random snippets of conversations my wife and I have to low paid contractors around the world.

> After all, the voice recognition in my Prius doesn't send recordings of my "call mom and dad mobile" back to Toyota and it certainly doesn't send random snippets of conversations my wife and I have to low paid contractors around the world. How do you know? Is it not internet-connected?

I don’t know about the Prius, but there are plenty of non-connected devices that support voice control.

I have a Garmin GPS from like 8 years ago that did voice commands, it had zero transmit functionality.

Re: Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations

#310

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

PeterStuer wrote: post #284

mikeash wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it feasibility, or just laziness? My car has a little blurb that explains that they collect data to use for training and gives me the choice to participate or not. Opting out doesn’t affect any functionality. Why can’t Google do the same thing?

That should never be an opt-out. It is both ethically and in some regions legally required to be opt-in.

Or just an opt, where you have to make a choice during setup.