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Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

projectvesta.org

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Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#41

Post by nine_k »

matznerd wrote: post #13
cupofjoakim wrote: post #3

I'm sceptical. Are there calculations on shipping for the olivine? If it's primarily mined in certain parts of the world it's going to have a big cost in shipping - there's a reason why regular sand is sourced as locally as possible. It weighs a lot, which means that it's expensive for both the wallet and the environment to ship.

Hi, co-founder of Project Vesta here. Based on a CO2 life cycle assessment, to minimize CO2 created during transport, the idea is to utilize mines within 300 km (186 mi) of the destination beach. Including mining, milling, and transport, we can hopefully maintain only a 4% efficiency loss in terms of CO2.[1] This paper has a few examples of models where it is 93% efficient for mines within 1,000 km. [2] Fortunately,…

Will olivine-covered beaches be still good for recreation? Will olivine sand produce fine dust that would muddy the water?

I bet the first few green beaches would just look cool enough to increase he stream of tourists — as long as walking over an olivine beach feels safe and not unpleasant.

Also, is dumping olivine on rocky but flat enough shores an option? That is, may it not replace existing sandy beaches but form new olivine-only beaches?

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#42

Post by graeme »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #25
supergauntlet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I get the worry and skepticism about geo-engineering but to be completely frank we've been (inadvertently) geo-engineering the planet at least since the industrial revolution, so I don't really think we have much of a choice, especially since we need to go carbon negative, not just neutral. This olivine solution doesn't really look any less viable than CO2 scrubbers, if I'm being honest.

I would rather we strengthen our forests than add more pollution. I guess if forestry is considered geo-engineering then I support it. But I don't think "we're already adding pollution, so we might as well add more pollution to try to net out carbon" is a sound argument.

Forests are helpful but not sufficient. The world was once covered in forests and all the oil/coal etc was in the ground.

Now we have reduced forest cover and burned underground carbon. Reforestation only solves the former.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#43

Post by crazydoggers »

pfdietz wrote: post #34

Dissolving olivine on beaches means releasing nickel into the environment. What is the effect of the release of many megatons of this element?

Yikes... I know coral and other invertebrates are very sensitive to heavy metals like nickel.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#44

Post by graeme »

6d6b73 wrote: post #33
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have ways of measuring CO2 in the atmosphere in ppm. It's recorded daily. 30 billion tons of rock is needed per year. That's non trivial in logistics and cost. You think if it turns out to work too well they'll just keep going year on year until no CO2 is left, and not maybe slow down or stop instead?

I'm not talking about this one project, but multiple projects going on at the same time. And yes we can measure it daily but do we know what's the lag? If we remove 1mln tons of CO2 from the atmosphere today, will it show up in the results tomorrow? If not, do we know how that's going to affect the climate?

You can monitor CO2 real time. And if we ever took too much out, which is vanishingly unlikely: just burn more oil!

You can buy a co2 sensor for $150 or so.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#45

Post by SwellJoe »

numakerg wrote: post #22
matznerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, co-founder of Project Vesta here. Based on a CO2 life cycle assessment, to minimize CO2 created during transport, the idea is to utilize mines within 300 km (186 mi) of the destination beach. Including mining, milling, and transport, we can hopefully maintain only a 4% efficiency loss in terms of CO2.[1] This paper has a few examples of models where it is 93% efficient for mines within 1,000 km. [2] Fortunately,…

Hi Eric, How do you plan to compensate countries who own the beaches or waters targeted by the project? Do you have an estimate of how receptive a community will be to having their beach turned green, especially if they rely on it for a portion of their income? A country outside of the world's economic powers might want financial insurance in the event that the the project causes ecological damage and hurts their eco…

Several California cities are already spending millions annually to dump sand and rocks and to build/expand seawalls, to try to stave off the ocean taking prime beachfront real estate (and it's not working, in the long run).

Those cities (though not in the ideal location for this project, I guess) would likely be ecstatic to have subsidized assistance (though who subsidizes it?). They're losing the beaches no matter what they do, the question is how long will it take, what will it cost to push it out a few more years, etc. For cities that don't have the budget to dump millions of dollars worth of sand only to have it mostly wash away in the next storm, a green beach is probably much more appealing than no beach.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#46

Post by wincy »

6d6b73 wrote: post #39
pfdietz wrote: post #34

Dissolving olivine on beaches means releasing nickel into the environment. What is the effect of the release of many megatons of this element?

"massive application of olivine in agriculture may cause imbalances in plant nutrition, notably at low Ca availability, and will bring Ni into the food chain." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415406/

Super exciting for someone like me who breaks out horribly when a quarter or a nickel belt touches my skin.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#47

Post by onemoresoop »

plopz wrote: post #40

From the pictures it makes the beach look like its covered in algae or seaweed. I don't think people will be very receptive to the idea if it looks like that.

If it's not sticky and smelly like algae then be it, people will get used to it.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#48

Post by 6d6b73 »

graeme wrote: post #44
6d6b73 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about this one project, but multiple projects going on at the same time. And yes we can measure it daily but do we know what's the lag? If we remove 1mln tons of CO2 from the atmosphere today, will it show up in the results tomorrow? If not, do we know how that's going to affect the climate?

You can monitor CO2 real time. And if we ever took too much out, which is vanishingly unlikely: just burn more oil! You can buy a co2 sensor for $150 or so.

Lol. Im sure $150 co2 sensor will be able to detect co2 concentration in the atmosphere of our planet.

Climat is a very delicate system. Once we remove too much there might not be enough time to reverse this.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#50

Post by SwellJoe »

6d6b73 wrote: post #33
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have ways of measuring CO2 in the atmosphere in ppm. It's recorded daily. 30 billion tons of rock is needed per year. That's non trivial in logistics and cost. You think if it turns out to work too well they'll just keep going year on year until no CO2 is left, and not maybe slow down or stop instead?

I'm not talking about this one project, but multiple projects going on at the same time. And yes we can measure it daily but do we know what's the lag? If we remove 1mln tons of CO2 from the atmosphere today, will it show up in the results tomorrow? If not, do we know how that's going to affect the climate?

We are decades into pumping vastly more carbon into the atmosphere than is sustainable. We're not going to accidentally flip that problem upside down without noticing years in advance.
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