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Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

projectvesta.org

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Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#11

Post by 24gttghh »

At first I read this and was like "okay, you want to dump 30 Gigatons of Olivine per year for 'a number of years' on tropical beaches"

That sounds crazy, considering we pump out +10Gigatons of CO2 per year as it is. But, does the science actually make sense in that if we actually did that, we'd end up with less CO2 in the atmosphere, and subsequently the oceans? That would seem to make this a great tool (possibly among many) to clean up our mess once/if/when we stop putting so much CO2 out there in the first place.

Edit: I do wonder if this process would raise the alkalinity of the ocean too much in the other direction. I can't find the info on this on their site, there is so much to read!

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#12

Post by krisrm »

This actually seems to have some promise - I'd be worried about other side effects (another article I was reading mentioned possible effects on marine life due to dissolved iron and nickel), but it seems like a technology that merits further exploration and rollout on at least a small scale.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#13

Post by matznerd »

cupofjoakim wrote: post #3

I'm sceptical. Are there calculations on shipping for the olivine? If it's primarily mined in certain parts of the world it's going to have a big cost in shipping - there's a reason why regular sand is sourced as locally as possible. It weighs a lot, which means that it's expensive for both the wallet and the environment to ship.

Hi, co-founder of Project Vesta here. Based on a CO2 life cycle assessment, to minimize CO2 created during transport, the idea is to utilize mines within 300 km (186 mi) of the destination beach. Including mining, milling, and transport, we can hopefully maintain only a 4% efficiency loss in terms of CO2.[1]

This paper has a few examples of models where it is 93% efficient for mines within 1,000 km. [2]

Fortunately, there are olivine reserves found all over the planet in a formation called dunite (contains 90% forsterite olivine).

Further, for many of the first beaches, we will be looking to use tailings piles (waste rock) from previously dug and developed mines, as well as the infrastructure from those mines, such as rail for transport. Since olivine is found in volcanic rock formations close to the surface, in the process of mining other minerals that are found in volcanic formations such as diamonds, many tons of olivine rock have already been dug up and deposited in large piles on the surface. By utilizing this rock we would not produce any additional CO2 from mining, and only from crushing/transport.

We are definitely taking the CO2 penalty into account in our calculations and strategy for deployment.

[1] https://projectvesta.org/science/#dflip-df_978/1/ [2] https://projectvesta.org/science/#dflip-df_93/2/

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#14

Post by roonilwaslib »

astazangasta wrote: post #5

This seems like it would fail energetically; the amount of energy required to mine and transport a bunch of rock to a beach would surely exceed the amount of CO2 sequestered.

From the second item on their FAQ (https://projectvesta.org/frequently-asked-questions/): > The Life Cycle Analysis (LCA) of the release of CO2 from mining, milling, and transport of olivine creates an approximately 4-6% loss on CO2 removed.

I'd still like to see the LCA.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#16

Post by aphextim »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #8
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

Mine olivine rock, spread it on a small percentage of tropical marine beaches with high levels of tide energy, remove CO2 from the atmosphere. What could possibly go wrong? Edit: not sure why the downvotes. Perhaps I should have explained my skepticism more clearly? Any geo-engineering initiative almost always fails to predict the unintended consequences for the environment - e.g. perhaps one day we'll discover that…

> What could possibly go wrong? As the water level rises we're gonna need to lose some of the cynicism around geo-engineering. Unless you're convinced that society will somehow value the stability of our climate over economics? I feel like there's more evidence (given our snail-like progress over the past few decades) to demonstrate that's a not gonna work out compared to attempting _some_ form of geo-engineering.

I'm all for Geo-engineering if it is done in the right way to further benefit all of society and the planet. Sadly as humans we have never all come together for the benefit of the planet yet, and I am doubtful we will in the near future.

My fear is that once people figure out how to Geo-engineer things with fine tuned results that it will eventually be used as a weapon.

Imagine if you could turn up the temperature of an area to create a drought?

Or flood/freeze out an area?

This could be done covertly as it would be hard to identify the exact cause if done under the 'radar'.

No bomb shells or traces left behind to place blame.

I'll pass on homo-sapiens ego presuming they are smarter than the planet and can fix any problem using technology and our brains.

Maybe for the first time in History we may be smart enough to mitigate the potential ill effects of the climate cycle, however this planet was here long before humans and will probably be here long after.

There was a joke once, about human's being the planets Herpes, which seems to be a good metaphor for our existence on this rock.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#17

Post by supergauntlet »

krisrm wrote: post #12

This actually seems to have some promise - I'd be worried about other side effects (another article I was reading mentioned possible effects on marine life due to dissolved iron and nickel), but it seems like a technology that merits further exploration and rollout on at least a small scale.

I think I get the worry and skepticism about geo-engineering but to be completely frank we've been (inadvertently) geo-engineering the planet at least since the industrial revolution, so I don't really think we have much of a choice, especially since we need to go carbon negative, not just neutral.

This olivine solution doesn't really look any less viable than CO2 scrubbers, if I'm being honest.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#18

Post by numakerg »

I didn't see the cost breakdown [1] mention how much they expect to pay countries for dumping olivine in their beaches/waters. Would a country, especially those near the equator, willingly agree to take part in an experiment like this for free? The referenced papers have explained how the project is safe, but I don't think communities or their representatives will see it that way.

1. https://projectvesta.org/#phaseIV

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#19

Post by 6d6b73 »

"The Last 3 Ice Ages Were Caused By Volcanic Rock Weathering Near the Equator [...] Project Vesta seeks to mimic this natural process but to greatly accelerate it because we do not have millions of years to wait."

I'm afraid that too many these proposed geoengineering projects will actually take place, and nobody will really know how much of the CO2 is removed from the atmosphere. If that happens we will end up with another Ice Age (we're due for one soon anyway), or something worse.

I know it's easy to make CO2 the villain, but let's not forget that the life on this planet is not possible without it.

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