Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives • Hacker News Board

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#251

Post by simias » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

gavia1 wrote: post #210

ElKrist wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relative in France hit a pedestrian outside of a crosswalk, the aged man died after a few days at the hospital. It was night time, rainy and the victim popped out from the space between two parked cars and ran just in front of the motorbike to quickly cross the road. There was automatically a trial anyway for manslaughter and my relative was not found guilty of anything. I think it's a good thing to automatically h…

What do you mean by "full control"? The average driver does not have the experience nor the training to maintain full control at all times. For example, consider a situation where the driver has to correct understeer, or lift-off oversteer, both relatively easy to achieve in cold, wet conditions.

You're never supposed to operate your vehicle outside of your comfort zone where you know you'll be able to react correctly and optimally. If the conditions are sub-optimal and you think you might not be able to handle your car correctly in case of emergency you should drive slower or not drive at all.

I won't pretend that I've always been a perfect driver, quite far from it actually, but I don't think the law should find me excuses. If I drive too fast and find myself unable to avoid a collision I definitely don't expect to get a pass for my reckless driving because it was at night and raining.

Hopefully in the not-so-far future we'll finally get those self-driving cars we were promised and we'll be able to leave all of that to the past.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#252

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

ElKrist wrote: post #246

gavia1 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "full control"? The average driver does not have the experience nor the training to maintain full control at all times. For example, consider a situation where the driver has to correct understeer, or lift-off oversteer, both relatively easy to achieve in cold, wet conditions.

Perhaps not the best translation. It means that you have to adapt to the conditions and also for instance that driving with one hand because you have a cup of coffee, using your phone or having to manage a naughty pet that jumped to the front seat is not an acceptable excuse

[deleted]

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#253

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #224

gavia1 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent was referring to the mining and manufacturing of lithion ion and other components that go into a car.

That's a secondary effect. Primary effect I had in mind when commenting was the movement of the emissions from the local tailpipe to the electric plant (which is very far from 100% emission-free today).

As said this is so only on 'backwards' countries ;) and certainly it should not last.

Claiming that electric vehicles only move emissions to the electric plant is unfair at best.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#254

Post by pacaro » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

hkt wrote: post #91

stevenwoo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like the article states - it's actually unusual for a non drunk driver in America to face charges when in any incident with a bicyclist or pedestrian even with a death unless there is a LEO watching or LEO victim. It's a common topic on blogs about cycling in the USA.

What's LEO?

Often in more formal writing the phrase "peace officer" is used, at least in part this is because in the US there are so many different types of cop and so many jobs that have some level of cop-like authority that saying cop or police officer is insufficient

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#255

Post by briandear » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #76

methodover wrote: post #43

“Given New York’s lax enforcement record, the Freakonomics podcast described running over pedestrians there as “the perfect crime.”” I was driving in Oakland when the car in front of me didn’t slow down for a pedestrian in the crosswalk. The pedestrian disappeared in front of the car. I stopped my car, got out, found the struck young woman trembling and bleeding in the street. The speed limit was 30 miles per hour. I…

Wait, what!? In Europe if you strike a pedestrian on the crosswalk you'll definitely loose your license and be looking at manslaughter charges too while your insurance company will murder you after paying the victim's medical/disability/court bills.

The same thing in the United States. The parent comment, while I don’t doubt the truth of the story, it doesn’t represent what actually happens. People that hit a pedestrian in a crosswalk are going to be cited and if there are injuries, potentially charged with a serious crime.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#256

Post by peterwwillis » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

I'm extremely interested in seeing micro-mobility options expand. The more forms of transportation we have that aren't cars and buses, the more seriously the public will consider things like taking one lane of traffic and dedicating it to bikes, scooters, trikes, quadricycles, golf carts, and the like. If we can make it easier for people to get around this way, we can slowly push cars to the fringes of cities, and maybe with the money we save, even eventually replace them for inter-city transportation.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#257

Post by wycy » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

dsego wrote: post #242

wycy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like absolute common sense that as abilities degrade as you age you should have to retest for drivers licenses periodically. Perhaps with greatly increasing periodicity with increasing age. However, any politician who proposed or approved such an idea would be immediately voted out of office, because old people are very reliable voters. So it's not going to happen.

My old (first) croatian driver's license issued back in early 2000s had an expiry date in 2040-something I think, basically until retirement. The new one is only 10 years, so I have to renew it. I only got the new one because it's a plastic card that fits in my wallet (unlike the old booklet).

My license expires after just 6 years I believe, but it can be renewed without retesting or anything, so unfortunately expiry doesn't solve the problem (at least in the US).

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#258

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

myspy wrote: post #239

stronglikedan wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a pedestrian (or cyclist), you should always give way to cars, even being prepared to jump out of the way when you have the right-of-way. Unless the driver is intoxicated, they get inconvenienced with higher insurance premiums for a little while at worst, while you get stuck with life long injuries and pain at worst.

Which is a reason why cars have to vanish from cities.

Then cities have to radically change. I don't know how people can ever commute from the current urban sprawl to their place of work without them. Cities would need to build massive bus and rail infrastructures at the cost of billions or similar amounts are going to have to be spent to increase densification.

I chose where to live because of a desire to be able to commute easily - the bus is 10 minutes, walking is about 25 - but I paid for it, both literally and figuratively.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#259

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #178

sokoloff wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German bus systems I’ve used have been night and day better than US ones. Buses that mostly run to a schedule are incomprehensible to most in the US. Probably related, I doubt we have a bus line with anywhere near that ridership.

I was curious about this as I’ve never looked into ridership by route and at least for Chicago it is absolutely true. A 70k route would be more than 3x the biggest in Chicago. https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/Monthly_Ridership_...

At least the red, blue & pink lines exceed 70k/weekday. Which is the point: anything approaching that level should be converted from bus to rail.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#260

Post by wil421 » Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

albedoa wrote: post #235

wil421 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not really sure the above comment is an accurate representation of the US. In my City an elderly lady stuck a child at a bus stop and killed her.[1] This lady had the audacity to try and get her license back after they took it but before the trial. [1] https://www.montlick.com/montlick-blog/auto-accidents/333-el...

Your one example incident involved a stopped school bus and the death of a child back in 2009. That you recall the result as being extraordinary ten years later should reenforce the representation.

How often do you think this happens within 2 miles from your house? This is my example locally.

The GPs comments were implying it wouldn’t happen in Europe without manslaughter charges and the US it they wouldn’t be charged. It can happen in the US with similar charges, vehicular homicide. My comment is valid.