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Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

theatlantic.com

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Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#21

Post by mytailorisrich »

achow wrote: post #18

This was a revelation. ...Even so, 85 to 90 percent of toxic vehicle emissions in traffic come from tire wear and other non-tailpipe sources,... So electric cars will mitigate only 10-15% of the environmental problems of the ICE cars?

This is misleading.

If you follow the link to the actual research paper you find that it's 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5

That is, not "emissions" in general but particle matter specifically.

This makes sense because modern cars have efficient engines and particle filters so that few particles are emitted from the combustion engine itself. The remaining sources are the tyres and the brakes.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#22

Post by megablast »

Imagine if someone invented cars today? Hey everyone, we want to make you use this killing machine, that kills a million people every year around the world directly, many more indirectly. We just need to clear out the parks currently around your houses to turn into horrible bleak roads, so they can bring the pollution directly to your door.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#23

Post by achow »

Tade0 wrote: post #20
achow wrote: post #18

This was a revelation. ...Even so, 85 to 90 percent of toxic vehicle emissions in traffic come from tire wear and other non-tailpipe sources,... So electric cars will mitigate only 10-15% of the environmental problems of the ICE cars?

Yes and no. These sources generate rather large particles (PM10) which, as opposed to PM2.5, don't get to the bloodstream through the lungs.

From the research paper cited by the article:

PM2.5 emissions were only 1-3% lower for EVs compared to modern ICEVs. Therefore, it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels. Non-exhaust emissions already account for over 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 emissions from traffic. These proportions will continue to increase as exhaust standards improve and average vehicle weight increases. Future policy should consequently focus on setting standards for non-exhaust emissions and encouraging weight reduction of all vehicles to significantly reduce PM emissions from traffic.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297889793_Non-exhau...

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#24

Post by megablast »

kd5bjo wrote: post #17
devoply wrote: post #4

Not just the legal system but also the city planners who designed all sorts of things like suburbs, malls, etc. that favour cars and are pretty much copy-pasta all over each city on the whole continent. All these people want bike lanes, I want my horse lane.

Suburbs, sure, but do malls really favor cars? Where I grew up, the mall was the only place where people would walk from one store to another instead of driving. I’ve also been in plenty of urban malls that have excellent public transit connections and are situated on busy pedestrian streets.

Malls are usually surrounded by a huge carpark.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#25

Post by achow »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #21
achow wrote: post #18

This was a revelation. ...Even so, 85 to 90 percent of toxic vehicle emissions in traffic come from tire wear and other non-tailpipe sources,... So electric cars will mitigate only 10-15% of the environmental problems of the ICE cars?

This is misleading. If you follow the link to the actual research paper you find that it's 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 That is, not "emissions" in general but particle matter specifically. This makes sense because modern cars have efficient engines and particle filters so that few particles are emitted from the combustion engine itself. The remaining sources are the tyres and the brakes.

Yes.

But doesn't the point still stays that contrary to the popular belief electric cars would not bring about much change?

Research paper: ..it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#26

Post by [deleted] »

megablast wrote: post #24
kd5bjo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suburbs, sure, but do malls really favor cars? Where I grew up, the mall was the only place where people would walk from one store to another instead of driving. I’ve also been in plenty of urban malls that have excellent public transit connections and are situated on busy pedestrian streets.

Malls are usually surrounded by a huge carpark.

[deleted]

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#27

Post by DaveInTucson »

According to Wikipedia [0], the number of MV-related deaths has been right about 10 or 11 per 100,000 per year for the last ten years. Which makes the opening claim "Americans are condemned to lose friends and relatives to traffic violence" seem particularly overwrought.

And while the legal system may have been of some help, I rather suspect the main reason cars took over is because they give the user a tremendous amount of freedom and agency.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#28

Post by nerdponx »

dalbasal wrote: post #12

Another way of stating this could be "transport is a policy question." How cities are built and what transport infrastructure they're built around. Im fairly sympathetic to the overall aims of this article. I think a transport system more similar to those in the Netherlands makes for better urban landscapes. But... this habitual style of treating everything as a conspiracy, built around a personified enemy ("They gav…

I'm not saying we should never think in abstractions... but there is a formulaic pattern here that's old, paranoid and harmful.

Except these conspiracies were (and are) generally real, and their effects are real. The pattern isn't journalistic, it's historical.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#29

Post by clfougner »

dredmorbius wrote: post #2

Corollary: the biggest impacts to energy consumption lie in land use and building code changes, secondarily in consumption habits. See LLNL's 2018 energy flow chart: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/... (PDF: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/docs/2018_United-... ) Of 101 quads, 28 go to transport. Industrial use. is dominated by relatively clean natural gas (methane), with a large…

To anyone else wondering what's meant by "rejected energy":

https://energycultures.org/2014/07/rejected-energy-much-ener...

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#30

Post by em-bee »

living in a big city in europe i was able to live without a car easily, but when i got a job in the US i fully expected that i'd have to learn to drive and get a car to get around.

BUT, i managed to get an apartment 10 minutes walking from the office. this was in san diego, of all places, a city which is very spread out. a few months later i moved in with friends and we found a place far north. most of my roommates had a car, but i took care that i had a bus going directly to work. it ran only once in 30 minutes, so missing it occasionally was a pain, but it was fine otherwise. it also provided for some memorable displays of humanity. another few months later the company moved to los angeles, and again i found a place with a direct bus to work.

i figured that if i can manage to live in sandiego and LA without a car, then i can do that anywhere. sure enough, a few years later i achieved the same in auckland. another city that is quite spread out and has a lackluster public transport system that rivals the US in lack of options.

not everyone is going to be able to achieve this. as a young programmer i could afford the higher rent in the areas close to the office. (i was a stone throw from hollywood boulevard, and crossed it every day on my way to the office :-)

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