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Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

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Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#91

Steve Wozniak is one of the few people of note in the tech industry who, the more I learn about them, seems more and more worthy of my respect. When I hear others speak of their sense of humour, how they stuck by their friends even when those friends clearly took advantage of them, the work and exemplary engineering skill they so clearly poured into their projects, their financial success and, then after having enjoy…

Aside from being a saint, I think Woz singlehandedly jumpstarted the computer industry by 1-2 years with his genius early designs. It would be 2017 now if it wasn't for him!

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration in as much as there were plenty of other designs under way, with at least Commodore and Tandy hitting the market at the same time as Apple reached any kind of volume, and a multitude of small volume designs around. If Apple hadn't been there, people would have just bought one of the others.

E.g Commodore's Chuck Peddle was part of actually designing the 6502 with Bill Mensch, and went on to lead work on the PET which reached the market about the same time, and Commodore machines outsold pre-Mac Apple machines by a substantial factor from the very beginning.

The early Apple machines were too expensive to get the same reach, and never penetrated many markets at all (I'd never seen one in person growing up in Norway until the Mac - it simply wasn't a thing there, same as in many other European countries).

Woz's designs may well have been influential in some parts, but e.g Peddle spoke to Woz and Jobs when peddling (sorry) the 6502 to them, and was subsequently very dismissive about them, so the Commodore team explicitly went a different direction because Peddle saw their approach as too hacky and decided to build his own instead of considering licensing theirs, and so he's one of few people that have designed a computer from the CPU itself and up.

While his assessment of Apple will have to stand for Peddle's personal opinion, the point is that Commodore as well as Tandy/RadioShack machines would likely have hit the market at the same time irrespective of Apple, and in many markets they - especially Commodore - totally trounced Apple in vokumes anyway, so while I know Apple was influential to some, I really don't see any of those tree taken out of the equation changing things that much.

In fact to me my primary interest in the early Apple machines is because it's like a window into an alternate past that's just totally foreign to me because to me early Apple was just not a part of my childhood (my friends all had Commodore, Spectrum, Atari or Amstrad machines with some poor soul stuck with a Tandy; the mix varied greatly by country, but Apple was in very rarely in Europe, with strong sales in only a handful of countries), and it's fascinating.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#92
post #2

I jumped into reading this note without looking at the url or author and near the end I was wondering who wrote it -- Then I saw the reference to the SPI driver which was a dead give away for James Bowman. I am continuously impressed with his work in the embedded scene after discovering the gameduino. It feels like even though there are thousands of voices on the web I actually only care about what perhaps 50 people…

I have never heard of James Bowman before. I’ll look into his writing some more.

Would you mind pointing me to some more of these interesting writers?

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#93
post #88

While I think Woz sets a good example, they're human - and I'm sure they've done and/or said things that are less than one might expect and which one probably wouldn't approve of or condone - or perhaps which one might even condemn. I'd caution against canonising people - it sets too high a standard; which no one real can meet.

Perhaps out of place but why are you consistently calling Woz "they"? I'm not a native speaker and it sounds very weird.

As I'm not aware of what pronouns they personally prefer, I fall back to using the singular, gender-neutral, "they/them/their". It's a fairly new usage in colloquial English but I find it to be common enough so as to not impair understanding.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#94
post #54

See also his (probably better known) 16-bit VM, Sweet 16. Published in Byte November, 1977: https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1977-11/page/n147 http://amigan.1emu.net/kolsen/programming/sweet16.html

What a great read. Thanks for that.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#95
post #88

While I think Woz sets a good example, they're human - and I'm sure they've done and/or said things that are less than one might expect and which one probably wouldn't approve of or condone - or perhaps which one might even condemn. I'd caution against canonising people - it sets too high a standard; which no one real can meet.

Perhaps out of place but why are you consistently calling Woz "they"? I'm not a native speaker and it sounds very weird.

they -> people like woz

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#96
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that I liked about the Apple II was that it was possible for one person to completely understand the whole system. I don't know that I'm capable of understanding my computer's keyboard now.

Each button has a unique code. It's packetized as usb or Bluetooth & sent to your pc. That's it.

Can you describe to me the architecture and components of a typical keyboard USB interface chip, both internal to the chip and external?

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#97

Woz was scary good at both hw and sw (author of Apple BASIC.) If you have time, go through his various Apple documents online. I believe he was never the same after his small plane crashed. (Back then, wealthy people used small planes like ATVs, and had about the same safety record.) I worked with another hw engineer of similar ability back in the 80s. Mind-blowing watching him just pick up a pen and draw out a compl…

Woz didn’t create “Apple Basic”. He created the first version of BASIC on the Apple // - Integer Basic. But Microsoft wrote the next version AppleSoft Basic.

Sorry to sperg, but "Integer BASIC" was almost certainly a retronym, a term which didn't exist prior to AppleSoft. Originally it was probably called Apple BASIC, just like ever other [manufacturer] BASIC (at least colloquially).

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#98
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people were scary good at these things early on. Not everyone was as good as Woz, of course. When you can fit the entire architecture into your head, all the way down to the chips and board layout, you'll find that you're capable of quite a lot on that platform. A human with a skillet that has scaled up as much as computing hardware has scaled up is going to be virtually impossible to find, if not actually im…

"A human with a skillet" -- oh, I'm guessing skillset is what you meant to say. I was feeling old and thinking I was ignorant of some new slang there for a few seconds. :-D

Well, there are youtube tutorials on how to solder SMD parts in in skillet, so you were not that far off ;-)

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#99
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that I liked about the Apple II was that it was possible for one person to completely understand the whole system. I don't know that I'm capable of understanding my computer's keyboard now.

A keyboard is actually a good place to learn some hardware stuff. You can (relatively) easily build a keyboard from scratch and program the chip (excluding USB, which is another can of worms). They are lots of tutorials and documentation online to get you started on it

Did early 8 bitters actually have a keyboard controller, or was it shift registers hooked directly to the cpu or something.

Tried googling and didn't turn up much.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#100
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps out of place but why are you consistently calling Woz "they"? I'm not a native speaker and it sounds very weird.

As I'm not aware of what pronouns they personally prefer, I fall back to using the singular, gender-neutral, "they/them/their". It's a fairly new usage in colloquial English but I find it to be common enough so as to not impair understanding.

completely off topic, but is this where we’re at now ? Calling someone « they » and thus create confusion, just in case he doesn’t belong to the 99.9% of the population who is just fine with his DNA, and eventhough he never expressed any kind of opinion leading you to think he isn’t fine with his gender ?
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