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Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

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Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#51
post #9
post #3

I don't think many people realize that Woz's dad was an electrical engineer at Lockheed who would bring home computer manuals that Woz would read as a kid. This seems to be a fairly effective way to create world-changing computer engineers.

Regression tends to the mean. Imagine what Apple might have been if Woz's dad had been in the factory!

'Tends', not 'is guaranteed to go'. Sometimes kids are much smarter than their parents.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#52

Woz was scary good at both hw and sw (author of Apple BASIC.) If you have time, go through his various Apple documents online. I believe he was never the same after his small plane crashed. (Back then, wealthy people used small planes like ATVs, and had about the same safety record.) I worked with another hw engineer of similar ability back in the 80s. Mind-blowing watching him just pick up a pen and draw out a compl…

I wonder why rich people have such a high urge to fly small airplanes. It seems to expose you to a lot of risk, which you could easily avoid (I’ve lived a considerable number of years without facing a single situation where I was likely to fly an airplane).

Planes are moderately expensive and very fun

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#53

Woz was scary good at both hw and sw (author of Apple BASIC.) If you have time, go through his various Apple documents online. I believe he was never the same after his small plane crashed. (Back then, wealthy people used small planes like ATVs, and had about the same safety record.) I worked with another hw engineer of similar ability back in the 80s. Mind-blowing watching him just pick up a pen and draw out a compl…

I wonder why rich people have such a high urge to fly small airplanes. It seems to expose you to a lot of risk, which you could easily avoid (I’ve lived a considerable number of years without facing a single situation where I was likely to fly an airplane).

It's very freeing. My grandparents would fly to the Bahamas for dinner on a whim from central florida for instance.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#55

As a senior Java / CPP developer, reading what Wozniak had written, it might have been some incantation in a forgotten language. I really wish I had done more embedded and assembly at school. I can't understand it or appreciate it. Maybe SW and HW shouldn't mix, bar a few visionaries who bridge both worlds?

> As a senior Java / CPP developer This makes me cringe. A "senior" engineer is defined by whatever role a company slots you in. This is compounded by adding programming languages to the mix. > I really wish I had done more embedded and assembly at school. I can't understand it or appreciate it. There is no hardware involved here, per-se. What is there is the 6502 instruction set, plus binary floating point calculati…

On Linux, a full asm program with syscalls isn't too bad.

Here's one example:

https://jameshfisher.com/2018/03/10/linux-assembly-hello-wor...

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#56

Having written a lot of 8 bit assembler for the 6800 microprocessor for 2K eproms, I can attest it is a very different skill from writing modern software.

Would love to hear more about this - have you written on your experiences?

You might be interested in lft's talk[1] - "Poems For Bugs" - about why people are still writing very impressive demos for the C64 and other highly limited platforms. Instead of thinking about programming as functions and objects that divide the problem into simple mostly-independent modules. It's more like trying to write a highly-constrained poem of asm instructions that fit together in incredibly clever ways[2].

[1] https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/poems-for-bugs/inde...

[2] e.g. https://www.linusakesson.net/scene/a-mind-is-born/index.php

edit:

I love the Zachtronics games "Shenzhen I/O" (easier) and "TIS-100" (MUCH harder/esoteric). They are a great (and fun) way to try asm/microcontroller programming.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#57
post #9
post #3

I don't think many people realize that Woz's dad was an electrical engineer at Lockheed who would bring home computer manuals that Woz would read as a kid. This seems to be a fairly effective way to create world-changing computer engineers.

Regression tends to the mean. Imagine what Apple might have been if Woz's dad had been in the factory!

Steve Jobs' father was a machinist for a firm that made lasers.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#58
The 8051 platform can present even more challenges for assembly language code developers than the 6502. It has been over 35 years since I wrote any 6502 code, and over 30 years since I wrote any 8051 code, but I remember the biggest issue on 8051 was the lack of RAM. You get a total of 384 bytes of RAM (256 bytes of normal RAM and 128 bytes of "zero page" RAM). When I needed to write floating point math functions for the 8051, I realized that fixed point decimal math would meet my requirements. I took advantage of the large ROM space to store a bunch of constants (powers of 10) and the code I wrote operated on decimal ASCII strings. Because of the limited memory, all of my operators would destroy the second argument and replace it with the result.

Code is available upon request.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#59

I learned to program on a 6502 when I was younger - it's a little depressing that computers went and got so fast that there's no real justification for doing this sort of thing any more in almost any domain (except, I guess, if you manage to land a position developing embedded I2C drivers).

I beg to differ; shader / GPU programming has been a haven for justification of programming 'that sort of thing'. Particularly on home consoles where the hardware doesn't change year on year but the need to improve is still prevalent.

Re: Steve Wozniak's floating point routines for the 6502

#60
post #51
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regression tends to the mean. Imagine what Apple might have been if Woz's dad had been in the factory!

'Tends', not 'is guaranteed to go'. Sometimes kids are much smarter than their parents.

Regression to the mean works equally in both directions, yes. A tall kid likely has shorter parents (though still above-average), and so on.
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