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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#261

Post by gridlockd »

democracy wrote: post #254
gridlockd wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those exchanges are those "on and off ramps" that the Facebook is talking about here. Otherwise, Libra can be used "anonymously" just like Bitcoin. You download a client, you generate an identity and then you can receive/send it. https://developers.libra.org/docs/my-first-transaction#creat... That's why the whole money laundering issue comes up in the first place, because Libra is a cryptocurrency much like many othe…

What we call a "cryptocurrency" must be decentralised otherwise it is a Paypal version X. Ripple is 100% centralised by the way.

Who is "we"?

Ripple (or rather XRP, which I referred to as "Ripple") is widely referred to as cryptocurrency. It uses a distributed ledger and cryptography, like a cryptocurrency. It is traded on cryptocurrency exchanges and can be sent/received like a cryptocurrency (requiring no account registration like Paypal). Also, like most cryptocurrency it is backed by nothing and its price fluctuates and moves along with broader cryptocurrency market trends. For most intents and purposes, it is a cryptocurrency.

Of course one can make the distinction that a "true" cryptocurrency should be fully decentralized, but that's besides my point.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#262

Post by Balgair »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #31

>With Libra, anyone with a $40 smartphone and connectivity will have the ability to securely safeguard their assets, access the world economy, transact at a much lower cost, and over time access a whole range of financial services. Bad actors will lift old exploitative models into Libra's ecosystem: payday loans with huge interest rates, wallet services that force a deposit and allow you to overspend and charge fees…

During the initial stages of the invasion of Afghanistan, the US would pay the ANA, just like everyone else, with cash and checks. However, it was soon discovered that the officers were the ones handing out the money. As could be expected, there was a lot of corruption and grift going on, and the grunts weren't getting their pay. Desertion rates went up by a lot. Eventually, the US figured out that you could pay the soliders in phone credits that they could redeem at 7-11 and the like. That went well for a little while, until the officers confiscated all the phones.

Which, actually, went a lot better. A lot of the common soliders would call up their relatives when they went on patrol or a mission so that their relatives knew to either stay away or come around later. A lot of relatives ended up being in the Taliban. As such, OpSec was a lot easier.

Vice news has a mini-docu on this a few years back, but I can't seem to find it online right now.

Point is, bad actors aren't sitting in cyberspace and aren't without authority. Money that you can't hold in your hands or bury in a tin can is worthless if the system you are in is corrupt. I'll wager that Libra is not going to be well adopted people in corrupt police jurisdictions.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#263

Post by api »

swift532 wrote: post #229
api wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has never in all of history been totalitarianism like what is possible now. We are building the technical infrastructure for our own total enslavement. Of course it makes me wonder if this is just history repeating in some sense. People came to the new world in part to flee European monarchist tyrannies. Now people will go to space to flee the Earth technocracy.

Only it's a bit easier and cheaper (en masse) to go to the New World instead of space which will likely be quite exclusive.

Getting to America in the 1500s and 1600s was very expensive and came with a high risk of death. I'm not sure how it would compare to a ride on SpaceX's upcoming Starship but it was definitely tough. People found all kinds of ways to finagle or mortgage (e.g. indenture) a voyage. Eventually the price dropped of course.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#264

Post by TomMckenny »

lightgreen wrote: post #213
TomMckenny wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming they wanted to prevent large transactions, how will they? Is Facebook planing to be solely responsible for clearing every transaction? Because the article literally says they plan "gradually transitioning to a permissionless state" and "Facebook will not control the network". And, not that this is their plan anyway, but how could they prevent Libra's from crossing borders if it is permissionless? And even if…

> Assuming they wanted to prevent large transactions, how will they? Is Facebook planing to be solely responsible for clearing every transaction? Same ways banks connected to Visa deny certain transactions. > Because the article literally says they plan "gradually transitioning to a permissionless state" I must admit I don’t understand what permissionless means. It’s not possible to be truly permissionless if you a m…

> It’s not possible to be truly permissionless

Exactly, it certainly appears the claims can't all be true. This is a bit disturbing from a company with a questionable track record.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#265

Post by Lucadg »

Lucadg wrote: post #127

This is the part where they reveal how they plan to negotiate with regulators: "At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain acti…

Typo, sorry: brought to you by Facebook

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#266

Post by Lucadg »

gridlockd wrote: post #253
sametmax wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean exchanges. Exchanges != crypto. Individuals can use btc anonymously. It's public, but only the person you deal with know who owns your wallet.

Those exchanges are those "on and off ramps" that the Facebook is talking about here. Otherwise, Libra can be used "anonymously" just like Bitcoin. You download a client, you generate an identity and then you can receive/send it. https://developers.libra.org/docs/my-first-transaction#creat... That's why the whole money laundering issue comes up in the first place, because Libra is a cryptocurrency much like many othe…

"Otherwise, Libra can be used "anonymously" just like Bitcoin. You download a client, you generate an identity and then you can receive/send it."

Bitcoin can be used anonymously if you avoid KYC on/off ramps and specific transactions tied to your identity. Hard but possible. From Libra's white paper this appears impossible. That's a big difference.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#267

Post by H8crilA »

orbifold wrote: post #218
H8crilA wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can participate in the digital economy, like using (the local equivalent of) Amazon or Spotify.

Both of those don’t seem super essential if you don’t even have a bank account. maybe get a bank account first and then think about a subscription music service, also both amazon and Spotify sell prepaid gift cards for this purpose, which you can buy in any super market here.

Dude but that's the point. They want to give people in developing markets a bank account (equivalent), to skip gift cards.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#268

Post by H8crilA »

arcticbull wrote: post #190
H8crilA wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as Trump's (and his predecessors) financial blacklists. Huawei CFO is prosecuted and currently in home arrest in Canada awaiting extradition to the US for allegedly bypassing sanctions on Iran. In simpler words: another US-domiciled lever that can be switched to the off position.

> Huawei CFO is prosecuted and currently in home arrest in Canada awaiting extradition to the US for allegedly bypassing sanctions on Iran. Huawei's CFO is currently on "house arrest" in a $10 million dollar estate in one of Vancouver's best neighborhoods, but free to move about the city so long as she's accompanied by a minder. As contrasted with the Canadians that China has kidnapped in retaliation and remain in se…

So, you basically agree with me.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#269

Post by glitchdout »

robteix wrote: post #219
chicob wrote: post #150

In Portuguese, "libra" is the word for the British Pound Sterling (GBP). I wonder how it is being branded here and whether there will be some kind of confusion, or mandatory differentiation.

Currency names are not unique. How many countries use "dollar" or "peso"? Portuguese-speakers don't seem to have a problem with that, so I'm sure they will somehow find a way to deal with two "libras"

You usually prefix it with the country name. So that leaves us with "australian dollar", "mexican peso" and, huh, I guess, "facebook libra"?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#270

Post by gridlockd »

Lucadg wrote: post #266
gridlockd wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those exchanges are those "on and off ramps" that the Facebook is talking about here. Otherwise, Libra can be used "anonymously" just like Bitcoin. You download a client, you generate an identity and then you can receive/send it. https://developers.libra.org/docs/my-first-transaction#creat... That's why the whole money laundering issue comes up in the first place, because Libra is a cryptocurrency much like many othe…

"Otherwise, Libra can be used "anonymously" just like Bitcoin. You download a client, you generate an identity and then you can receive/send it." Bitcoin can be used anonymously if you avoid KYC on/off ramps and specific transactions tied to your identity. Hard but possible. From Libra's white paper this appears impossible. That's a big difference.

> From Libra's white paper this appears impossible.

How so? Can you be specific? I quote the whitepaper:

"The Libra Blockchain is pseudonymous and allows users to hold one or more addresses that are not linked to their real-world identity."

The only difference that I see is that you could mine Bitcoin anonymously. You could also buy Bitcoin with cash in a private transaction, but the same can be said for Libra.

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