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Updating our rules against hateful conduct

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51–60 of 89 posts

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#51
People really need to get off Twitter. There are a lot of servers on the Fediverse, running Mastodon, Pleroma, Misskey, Pixelfed and other ActivityPub webapps. Just because famous person x,y,z or friends a,b,c, aren't on the Fediverse doesn't mean you shouldn't try it out.

It's like the 1990s, old IRC and AOL chatrooms. You can just follow a lot of randoms and get into cool threads. There are many instances that have open speech policies (which are banned by many other instances) and other instances with standard ban lists. You can choose where you want to sign up. Many of the people on HN have the knowledge to stand up their own if they want. (I run my own in Docker using a ruby tool I wrote: https://github.com/sumdog/bee2).

You can even create accounts of different Fediverse servers to get a better picture of what gets blocked/censored where. The difference with ActivityPub/Fediverse is you have choices.

Twitter, Reddit, et. al. worry so much about keeping people "safe" that they have completely killed off any diversity of ideas. Back before Reddit started their multi-year long banning-of-everything campaign, you had a lot of different voices, with a lot of different ideology, from conservative to socialist to libertarian to progressive .. battling it out with some really great discussion. Now it's all just monoculture.

The places people fled too, like Voat/Gab, are also just monoculture (Gab recently migrated to their own broken, garbage fork of Mastodon ... as if they needed a way to make the Mastodon UI worse). Voat is just a cesspool of hate, and any melting pot where people discussed ideas rationally is kinda gone.

I highly recommend The Coddling of the American Mind, a book that talks about how people today see "Free speech" as a bad thing, how people say words == violence (they don't, violence is violence, and saying words are violence show you're afraid of ideas).

I've also been reading The Strange Death of Europe, which talks a lot about migration and religious hate speech. Honestly a lot of the book is garbage and I didn't like any of the initial arguments, but I also realize it's important to read about viewpoints I don't agree with. As I kept reading, the author did make a lot of effort to interview Muslims (both long term residents and refugees) and he does make a good set of arguments for the difficulty of criticizing religion in Europe (and I don't agree with a lot of his findings, but I think his arguments and original research are worth looking at).

We really need to be careful with these new blurred lines around speech and hate and ideas and ideology and violence. Restricting things on any platform just gives people with those views, people who get banned, more validity in the eyes of people who see them as persecuted. The Westburro Baptist Church is an example of a small, non-evangelistic set of families that barely grow, who are fully supported by slander lawsuits (they're mostly lawyers). If there weren't WBC counter protests and publications against them, they'd have no one to sue, would have run out of money a long time ago, and would have needed to take real legal case work again. The great irony is the reason they still hold strong is due to protesters giving them relevance.

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#52

Everyone should read the examples so they have a clear understanding of what twitter is meaning when they say "dehumanize". It's not "hey I disagree with these people" it's "hey I want these people dead/injured/equated to shit". Religious and ethnic persecutions have often gone hand-in-hand. Religious minorities of all types will be helped by this, and we'll see less hate-speech on twitter. Seems to be a very reasona…

[deleted]

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#53
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on their definition of dehumanizing.

The examples given seem pretty clear - calling people rats, viruses, maggots, etc.

Examples given do not guarantee how a policy will actually be enforced. Motte and bailey rhetoric can be used punish a broad variety of behavior while insisting the policy only exists to curtail something abhorrent.

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#55
post #2

Hopefully, they recognize the group of people who do not practice religion as "basis of religion"

They probably won't.

Atheists are the most oppressed 'religious' group there is but no one will recognize it.

It's common they are left out of so-called "progressive" movements to support peace / safety.

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it would be affected -- as I recall, that episode mocks the religion and its members, but doesn't dehumanize them.

What exactly does "dehumanization" mean?

It means precisely what it sounds like -- using language which describes the targeted group as something other than (and lesser than) human. The article gives examples where religious groups are described as "rats", "viruses", "filthy animals", or "maggots".

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#57
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. In that case you have to pick a winner and loser. Then you suppress the loser and promote the winner. Which is the whole point. These issues of free speech have been around for a very long time, especially with regards to religious speech, which is at the bedrock of free speech, and the Western liberal tradition espouses free speech principles not because it didn't realize someone might get offended, but becau…

No. It's only if it dehumanizes the other. Criticism of the thoughts, ideas, practices are perfectly fine. Dehumanizing the practicers of any particular religion is what's not fine. You're over-reacting to what the linked post from twitter actually says.

Define "de-humanizing". If you look at how previous twitter anti-dehumanizing policies were enforced, this was used to ban NPC memes -- which were not memes against a person but against ideas. It was used to ban people who said things like "men can't get pregnant" -- which is an idea/belief.

Re: Updating our rules against hateful conduct

#60
post #5

I've been deeply concerned with attacks on religious freedom as of late, this seems like a strong step in the right direction.

Which religious freedoms have been attacked, and where?

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/other-examp...
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