Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#11

Post by jbarberu » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

While this isn't great, as a consumer I don't really see too big of a problem. If I get a raspberry pi to use for home automation or as a media center, do I really need it to work with every USB-C cable? I'd think I'd just find one that works and let that be the dedicated raspberry 4 cable.

If you're building a product based on Raspberry Pi that you're selling to others, then sure I could understand the outrage.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#12

Post by seiferteric » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

Is it possible to fix? Sounds like it's just missing a resistor? Break out the soldering iron and maybe could it could be salvaged.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#13

Post by Havoc » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

>a board revision with a spec-compliant charging port should be out sometime in the "next few months."

wohoo. Glad I waited. Hoping they make some incremental gains on the heat situation too

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#14

Post by jakeogh » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

jhbhjjhvhjkgh wrote: post #7

jakeogh wrote: post #2

"E-marked cables are fully featured USB-C cables with chips inside" That's um... awful.

The whole USB-C PD spec is overly complicated but in this case these chips are to ensure that someone doesn't push 4a/19v over an improperly built USB-C cable - that can lead to fire and burns. Also, other cables may have chips in them for data negotiation, specifically TB3/PCI encapsulation (the data rate is so high that over 6 inches you start to run into issues).

So, the spec allows an under-gauged cable to be plugged into a power outlet, and then relies on software (instead of a fuse) to not start a fire.

I'm looking for a word... worse than awful...

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#15

Post by ehonda » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

thijsvandien wrote: post #3

Reminder to self: being an early adopter sucks virtually always. Edit: Sure, the issue is rather easy to circumvent, but anyone would have preferred not to have it. At the very least, it affects the resale value. My point is that whenever the answer to the question 'do I need it absolutely right away?' is no, it's better to wait a bit, no matter how much you intend to buy it at some point.

Lucky me I didn't have any problems with mine because I:

- Bought the most basic kit that included a power supply and heat sinks

- Bought a $10 acrylic case with a fan so cooling also is not an issue for me

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#16

Post by HeWhoLurksLate » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

seiferteric wrote: post #12

Is it possible to fix? Sounds like it's just missing a resistor? Break out the soldering iron and maybe could it could be salvaged.

Part of the problem with this seems to be that the extra pads are not exposed, making it really hard to do fix without removing the connector.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#17

Post by gumby » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

jakeogh wrote: post #2

"E-marked cables are fully featured USB-C cables with chips inside" That's um... awful.

Is it? I think you want some smarts to talk to so 100W isn't pushed down a cable with wires too thin to handle it. And the high frequency modes (TB3, DP, etc) all require a lot of handshaking, signal conditioning etc to work, stuff that can't necessarily be done at the host connector side.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#18

Post by solarkraft » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

How hard is it to to copy a [expletive] schematic?

Edit: I'm serious. What convinced them to implement a design different from the example in the spec that simply does not work (hello, testing?)?

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#19

Post by 542458 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

thijsvandien wrote: post #3

Reminder to self: being an early adopter sucks virtually always. Edit: Sure, the issue is rather easy to circumvent, but anyone would have preferred not to have it. At the very least, it affects the resale value. My point is that whenever the answer to the question 'do I need it absolutely right away?' is no, it's better to wait a bit, no matter how much you intend to buy it at some point.

Eh, it’s not too bad. I found a cable that works and I’ll stick to it. Even with previous-gen Pis there was always a bit of futzing with cables to find one that has small enough voltage drop to not get power warnings (even some otherwise “good” cables really cheap out on copper). The USB C thing is still an issue, and I’m glad it’ll be fixed, but it’s really not that big of a deal.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#20

Post by solarkraft » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

jbarberu wrote: post #11

While this isn't great, as a consumer I don't really see too big of a problem. If I get a raspberry pi to use for home automation or as a media center, do I really need it to work with every USB-C cable? I'd think I'd just find one that works and let that be the dedicated raspberry 4 cable. If you're building a product based on Raspberry Pi that you're selling to others, then sure I could understand the outrage.

You might want to use a type c charger you already have or a power bank.