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France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

reuters.com

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Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#91

Post by baud147258 »

keiferski wrote: post #48

I am actually surprised that short-distance flights aren't taxed more in Western Europe. The train infrastructure in France is world class and can get you from Paris (North-Central part of the country) to Marseille (Southeast), a distance of about 500 miles, in 3 hours. For Americans, this would be roughly equivalent to go from Boston to Washington D.C. (a trip that takes 7-10+ hours)

The train infrastructure is not perfect, the biggest issue being travels not going to/from Paris: the lines aren't as good and there aren't a lot of high-speed lines.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#92

Post by [deleted] »

dawhizkid wrote: post #63
cameronbrown wrote: post #10

I don't really understand what the purpose of this tax is. There's no alternative to burning fuel by energy density on an airline, so why go after flights? What do they expect them to do? If you're taxing petrol cars you'd expect electric cars to become more economically viable. Either way I disagree with carbon taxes. They're regressive, and ignore the fact that regular people are being badly hurt by them whereas th…

Business class taxes are 3x-6x economy, so corporations/rich people are paying more. Flying as is is a luxury, economy class or not, and we shouldn't forget that.

[deleted]

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#93

Post by sgregnt »

frenchman99 wrote: post #34
elohju wrote: post #21

Because in France ecofascism is becoming the #1 religion thanks to leftist propaganda. Government uses that to increase taxes.

Oxfam says that the 10% richest account for 50% of air pollution. People that have enough money to travel by plane should have enough money to not destroy our environment.

They also account for a disproportional share of taxes. For example in Israel the richest 20% percent pay 80% of taxes (If I remember correctly)

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#94

Post by baud147258 »

TuringNYC wrote: post #79
theDevill wrote: post #56

Why are Americans so obsessed with religion, devil and sins?! Taxes exist to capture money and finance the externalities that are ignored by corporations. If corporations were more responsible countries would not have to tax these issues. In this case France is using the money to improve an already pretty good rail system. Compare this to the US and the California train line?

"Sin Taxes" are not meant to literally tax sins but to tax behaviours with negative consequences that where the price is ultimately bourne by society. For example, the cost of second hand smoke is bourne by others, and when they get sick, many times by taxpayers. The cost of alcohol is partly bourne by a variety of parties. "Sin Taxes" are not meant to discourage literal sins but to discourage such activities with ex…

Taxes on tobacco are a good example of a sin tax in France, for example, alongside taxes on fuel.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#95

Post by seszett »

joyjoyjoy wrote: post #67
sbergot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a train.

When was the last time you took a train from Paris to New York?

When was the last time you had no choice but to fly from Paris to New York?

Not taking the flight at all can also be an option. If you really need to, well contributing 18 euros to support less polluting infrastructure such as trains is not that big a price to pay.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#96

Post by newnewpdro »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #25
mattnewton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they expect people to fly less; similar to many other “sin” taxes like those on alcohol or tobacco.

What's the alternative to flying?

Traveling less far, or taking longer to get there, using a slower alternative.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#97

Post by ceejayoz »

isolli wrote: post #60
mgbmtl wrote: post #37

They say it will "help support the environment", which could mean through funding of greener initiatives, R&D or level the playing field (although the tax is really low/symbolic, in my opinion). It makes sense to tax flights in order to subsidize rail for short-distance trips. I would have expected a higher tax on flights outside the EU, so that people change their habits (although then you need a carbon-tax sort of…

Related: I was surprised to learn recently that short-distance trips by plane actually have lower CO2-emissions than long-distance ones, because the plane does not need to carry so much fuel just for later use.

Do you have a citation on that?

https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-clim... says "Longer flights are more efficient overall, as cruising requires less fuel."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation... also states "short flights tend to be more harmful to the climate per mile travelled than long-haul flights are (because they have more empty seats, and because taking off and landing burns more fuel than cruising)".

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#98

Post by sgregnt »

spanxx wrote: post #28
elohju wrote: post #21

Because in France ecofascism is becoming the #1 religion thanks to leftist propaganda. Government uses that to increase taxes.

Please, allow me to ask you, how this bold statement contributes to this conversation?

It provide a different worldview through which to look at and analyze this tax.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#99

Post by robjan »

sgregnt wrote: post #93
frenchman99 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxfam says that the 10% richest account for 50% of air pollution. People that have enough money to travel by plane should have enough money to not destroy our environment.

They also account for a disproportional share of taxes. For example in Israel the richest 20% percent pay 80% of taxes (If I remember correctly)

But they don't get rich without the labour of the other 80%.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#100

Post by bryanlarsen »

TuringNYC wrote: post #79
theDevill wrote: post #56

Why are Americans so obsessed with religion, devil and sins?! Taxes exist to capture money and finance the externalities that are ignored by corporations. If corporations were more responsible countries would not have to tax these issues. In this case France is using the money to improve an already pretty good rail system. Compare this to the US and the California train line?

"Sin Taxes" are not meant to literally tax sins but to tax behaviours with negative consequences that where the price is ultimately bourne by society. For example, the cost of second hand smoke is bourne by others, and when they get sick, many times by taxpayers. The cost of alcohol is partly bourne by a variety of parties. "Sin Taxes" are not meant to discourage literal sins but to discourage such activities with ex…

Pigouvian tax is a synonym if you want to avoid the connotations of sin.
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